Anyone else like Traditional Gender Roles in Anime?

[CopeDog87]

Re: Am I the only one who genuinely enjoys sexism in Anime?

Not necessarily. Just because somebody forgets to put a comma somewhere does not mean that their logic is flawed.

Anyways, my memory is kind of foggy in Stars, but some of the Sailor Animates were male, weren't they?

Yes there were. For example, there was Sailor Guts and Sailor Conductor.

Adding a comma to his or her sentence wouldn't have helped its grammar sense. If he or she would have wrote it like this (which is what I'm assuming you are suggesting), it would have meant he or she was disagreeing with the point I was trying to make about gender roles and responsibilities. However, in their sentence they were FAIRLY clearly trying to say they DID agree with that point I made. However, they still disagreed in that they felt that only girls are / can be referred to as princesses. Which, on a side note, I disagree with because even though someone is born a certain sex, that doesn't mean that's the identity they are on the inside. Heck, in the LGBT community there all kinds of men that are refereed to as queens, princesses, and fairies .

"No, gender roles and responsibilities of a prince and princess don't have to be followed, but girls are still referred to as Princesses."

 

[noildoof]

No, Sailor Guts and Sailor Conductor were not Animamates... they were Phages. The Phages were the "monsters of the day" while the Animamates were Galaxia's minions who created Phages by stealing their starseeds in the hopes that they would find a "true" starseed (called a Sailor Crystal in the manga). Iron Mouse, Lead Crow, Aluminum Seiren, Tin Nyanko, and (in the manga) Heavy Metal Papillon were Animamates. Essentially, only if they go by "Sailor (insert metal) (insert animal)" are they an Animamate.

It gets even more confusing in the manga with Lethe, Mnemosyne, Phi, and Chi... all of whom were Galaxia's minions, but not Animamates. In the manga the Animamates were "fake" senshi who had been given Sailor Crystals stolen from real senshi, while Lethe and Mnemosyne were real senshi and the same is implied for Phi and Chi.

 

[CopeDog87]

^ That's most certainly true Fokkusu, if you look at it from that perspective. However, when I read that person's post I was looking at it from the different perspective that the monsters of the day were apart of the evil organization as a whole "Sailor Animates", as they still aided and helped it's henchwomen try to defeat the sailor soldiers. Even though they didn't happen to be men, the Sailor Stewardesses are a good example of this.

 

[noildoof]

Yes, they are indeed villains working for Galaxia, some of whom are male, and you make very good points about gender roles... but a Phage just isn't the same thing as an Animamate. I'm getting hung up on definitions though, sorry...

 

[Kerochan no Miko]

Yes, they are indeed villains working for Galaxia, some of whom are male, and you make very good points about gender roles... but a Phage just isn't the same thing as an Animamate. I'm getting hung up on definitions though, sorry...

I think it's a lot more valid to nitpick definitions in a discussion than the placement of a comma, when that comma is in a non-crucial position.

 

[Shiro Darklight]

I goofed and confused Phages with Animamates actually. As for the misplaced comma remark, I was just using it as an example that grammar flaws are not always important in debates, and can't affect the credibility to that degree.

Come to think of it though, weren't the Shittenou (Did I spell that right?) kind of the male equivalent of the Sailor Senshi until Beryl got control over them? Serenity had 4 strong warriors guarding her..and yeah.

 

[Leia the Rebel]

I goofed and confused Phages with Animamates actually. As for the misplaced comma remark, I was just using it as an example that grammar flaws are not always important in debates, and can't affect the credibility to that degree.

Come to think of it though, weren't the Shittenou (Did I spell that right?) kind of the male equivalent of the Sailor Senshi until Beryl got control over them? Serenity had 4 strong warriors guarding her..and yeah.

i think they were, since they were mamoru guardians

 

[abc123youandme]

Re: Am I the only one who genuinely enjoys sexism in Anime?

. However, they still disagreed in that they felt that only girls are / can be referred to as princesses.Which, on a side note, I disagree with because even though someone is born a certain sex, that doesn't mean that's the identity they are on the inside.

If a biological male identifies as a girl then of course she absolutely can be referred to as princess. So no, men can't be Princesses because MTF transgender are still girls. For our Sailor Senshi debate, Naoko never made the distinction that only females born as females can be Sailor Senshi just that only girl can be Sailor Senshi. If anything I think a biological male who felt like a girl on the inside would absolutely have the ability to become a Sailor Senshi.

Bringing that back full circle, only girls can be Princesses, regardless if they're biologically female or MTF. Same as I imagine with Sailor Senshi.

 

[Kerochan no Miko]

Come to think of it though, weren't the Shittenou (Did I spell that right?) kind of the male equivalent of the Sailor Senshi until Beryl got control over them? Serenity had 4 strong warriors guarding her..and yeah.

Basically, yes. It was pretty clearly implied that the Shitennou were the equivalent of Serenity's four guardian senshi, although they didn't have sailor crystals and whatever else Naoko added to the story later.

Maybe the girls should've been upset that they didn't get to be heavenly kings.

 

[Usapon]

This talk about commas reminds me of the almost comical contrast between the use of commas in my mother tongue and English. In English a sentence can be understandable without a comma in a definite place, whereas in my mother tongue there are strict rules for comma placement and use. ("After a word from this set of words there will always be a comma, after a word from this set of words there will not, if the clauses share a common subject there must not be a comma ...")

 

[Salem Saberhagen]

No one's heard of "My Princess Boy?" http://www.amazon.com/My-Princess-Boy-C ... 1442429887

CopeDog, I can understand wanting to be a Sailor Soldier, they're very cool. But Naoko wasn't trying to put men down, it's just that with all the stuff boys get to do in fiction, she wanted to give girls something and say "this is just for you." Are you really angry with that sentiment?

Back on topic, I think the opener is talking more about "chivalry" than "traditional gender roles." You want traditional gender roles, read Twilight.

I'm not automatically offended by chivalry, but I don't particularly like it. I like it better when the girl has to stick her neck out for the boy, or best of all when they win hand-in-hand. Gay or straight, I've noticed most of the story ideas I have center around the "battle couple" concept.

 

[Rika-Chicchi]

Re: Am I the only one who genuinely enjoys sexism in Anime?

. However, they still disagreed in that they felt that only girls are / can be referred to as princesses.Which, on a side note, I disagree with because even though someone is born a certain sex, that doesn't mean that's the identity they are on the inside.

If a biological male identifies as a girl then of course she absolutely can be referred to as princess. So no, men can't be Princesses because MTF transgender are still girls. For our Sailor Senshi debate, Naoko never made the distinction that only females born as females can be Sailor Senshi just that only girl can be Sailor Senshi. If anything I think a biological male who felt like a girl on the inside would absolutely have the ability to become a Sailor Senshi.

Bringing that back full circle, only girls can be Princesses, regardless if they're biologically female or MTF. Same as I imagine with Sailor Senshi.

Those biological males identifying w/ females could go thru gender-realignment surgery after professional assessment.

Back on topic, I think the opener is talking more about "chivalry" than "traditional gender roles." You want traditional gender roles, read Twilight.

I'm not automatically offended by chivalry, but I don't particularly like it. I like it better when the girl has to stick her neck out for the boy, or best of all when they win hand-in-hand. Gay or straight, I've noticed most of the story ideas I have center around the "battle couple" concept.

I've always thought the concept is uber cool as well as romantic - a husband-&-wife ass-kicking duo, for example, look pretty great to me. Other (non-couple) action duos I like are father-&-daughter/mother-&-son & brother-&-sister.

 

[CopeDog87]

CopeDog, I can understand wanting to be a Sailor Soldier, they're very cool. But Naoko wasn't trying to put men down, it's just that with all the stuff boys get to do in fiction, she wanted to give girls something and say "this is just for you." Are you really angry with that sentiment?

Yes, because I think it's important to be open minded as an author and take into account all of your potential fan base. I pretty much already answered and addressed your question in this post.

However, turning this round full circle what I take issue with is Naoko's whole idea that ONLY girls can be sailor senshi. I don't like or support an idea such as that because I don't feel the sex a person is born should restrict or hold anyone back from being the person, or in this case kind of super hero they want to be. I would be just as upset and unsupportive of someone who tried to come up with a rule banning girls from being something only boys could be. Like say, from being a super hero at all.

 

[abc123youandme]

I just find it weird that you single Sailor Moon out for something tons of fictional works do but with the opposite gender. Tons of shows, movies, books etc have way more male characters than female. But when Sailor Moon inverses it, it's wrong?

 

[Usapon]

Yes, because I think it's important to be open minded as an author and take into account all of your potential fan base. I pretty much already answered and addressed your question in this post.

"Potential fanbase" doesn't exactly mean everybody. When you think of a "potential fanbase", you try to single out girls and boys, children and adults. Not saying that boys cannot watch BSSM, I'm saying that the makers didn't necessarily think that there would be a mass market boys or men of any age in this show.

However, turning this round full circle what I take issue with is Naoko's whole idea that ONLY girls can be sailor senshi. I don't like or support an idea such as that because I don't feel the sex a person is born should restrict or hold anyone back from being the person, or in this case kind of super hero they want to be. I would be just as upset and unsupportive of someone who tried to come up with a rule banning girls from being something only boys could be. Like say, from being a super hero at all.

As much as I would normally agree with you, I think you need to put stuff into context. I'm not referring to the fact that there is so much superhero stuff directed at male audience with male heroes outside this franchise, I mean that why would a guy have to be a Sailor Senshi? There are powerful, good male characters in this show, too, they just aren't Sailor Soldiers. This might be a very bad example, but think of it like this: why would a man want to be the Queen of England specifically (assuming that he has no transvestite or transgender tendencies or qualities) if he could be the King of England? Does a term matter?

 

[Remus Tsukino]

CopeDog, I can understand wanting to be a Sailor Soldier, they're very cool. But Naoko wasn't trying to put men down, it's just that with all the stuff boys get to do in fiction, she wanted to give girls something and say "this is just for you." Are you really angry with that sentiment?

Yes, because I think it's important to be open minded as an author and take into account all of your potential fan base. I pretty much already answered and addressed your question in this post.

However, turning this round full circle what I take issue with is Naoko's whole idea that ONLY girls can be sailor senshi. I don't like or support an idea such as that because I don't feel the sex a person is born should restrict or hold anyone back from being the person, or in this case kind of super hero they want to be. I would be just as upset and unsupportive of someone who tried to come up with a rule banning girls from being something only boys could be. Like say, from being a super hero at all.

I'm gonna repeat myself: it's like how in Wonder Woman only women can be Amazons. So what, there are girl only groups, granted, not many. I'm not gonna whine about not being in Girl Scouts, because I have the Boy Scouts (and I am a proud member of the scouts, so bite me). Girls have the Amazons and the Sailor Senshi, boys have the Z Warriors. Don't like it? Be an X-Man.

 

[Rika-Chicchi]

I'm gonna repeat myself: it's like how in Wonder Woman only women can be Amazons.

Hey, there're Supergirl, Batgirl, & Spider-Woman, so why not Wonder Man?

 

[Remus Tsukino]

I'm gonna repeat myself: it's like how in Wonder Woman only women can be Amazons.

Hey, there're Supergirl, Batgirl, & Spider-Woman, so why not Wonder Man?

I'm referring to Wonder Woman's sisters, the Amazons, based on the Greek Myth, not how Wonder Woman herself is a hero.
And, yes, there is a Wonder Man.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonder_Man

 

[Rika-Chicchi]

I'm gonna repeat myself: it's like how in Wonder Woman only women can be Amazons.

Hey, there're Supergirl, Batgirl, & Spider-Woman, so why not Wonder Man?

I'm referring to Wonder Woman's sisters, the Amazons, based on the Greek Myth, not how Wonder Woman herself is a hero.
And, yes, there is a Wonder Man.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonder_Man

Didn't know that. Too bad the character isn't modeled on Wonder Woman, like Supergirl on Superman, etc. lol

 

[Seira Hazuki]

While it would be nice if Naoko considered the small minority that make up her fanbase, I can see it becoming a slippery slope. Let's say, hypothetically, Naoko introduces a male sailor soldier as a minor character in the new anime, but ensures that this male soldier has less screen time than the other female soldiers. After all, she wants the focus to be on the girls - the whole point of the series. Unfortunately, the 'fanbase' decides it's sexist that the male character doesn't have as much focus as the female ones. So Sailor Guy becomes just as important as Sailor Moon. But why are there so many female sailor soldiers and only one male? Shouldn't Naoko introduce more? And then you end up with something that drifts away from the main focus of the series.

Sailor Moon is a product of Naoko's desire to have a female super hero that reflected her own experience. The traditional school uniform for girls in Japan is a sailor suit, hence there are no male sailor soldiers, and it's probably the reason why most sailor soldiers are young girls too (AGEIST!). Sure, it might seem unfair, but it would be the equivalent of calling make-up companies sexist because they primarily advertise their products to girls only. Nothing prevents guys from wearing said make-up, the same way nothing prevents people from creating male sailor soldier fanart. Just don't expect it to happen in canon anytime soon!