Do you find 90s Seiya toxic?

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sapphire91

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Jul 6, 2018
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#1
I mean, at first Seiya seems all charming and cool, but as the story goes on, it becomes clear that they gaslighting Usagi. They always trying to make her doubt her feelings for Mamoru and pushing himself on her even when she's not interested. It's not romantic, it's creepy and manipulative! And can we talk about how possessive and intrusive Seiya is? They don't respect Usagi's boundaries at all! They are constantly stalking her and invading her personal space, even when she tells them to back off. It's not cool, it's straight-up creepy. And don't even get me started on how Seiya undermines Usagi's confidence as Sailor Moon. He's always questioning her abilities as a leader and a warrior, making her doubt herself. It's so messed up! But the worst part is how Seiya just refuses to accept Usagi's choices and boundaries and guilt trips her into liking them. He keeps pursuing her even when she's clearly not interested. It's a total disregard for her autonomy and consent, and it's not okay! We need to call out Seiya's toxic behavior for what it is - emotional abuse. It's not romantic, it's harmful. Usagi deserves to be treated with respect and for her choices to be respected.

Sorry if I have mis-gendered Seiya here and there.
 
Last edited:
Sep 19, 2022
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#2
I mean, at first Seiya seems all charming and cool, but as the story goes on, it becomes clear that they gaslighting Usagi. They always trying to make her doubt her feelings for Mamoru and pushing himself on her even when she's not interested. It's not romantic, it's creepy and manipulative! And can we talk about how possessive and intrusive Seiya is? They don't respect Usagi's boundaries at all! They are constantly stalking her and invading her personal space, even when she tells them to back off. It's not cool, it's straight-up creepy. And don't even get me started on how Seiya undermines Usagi's confidence as Sailor Moon. He's always questioning her abilities as a leader and a warrior, making her doubt herself. It's so messed up! But the worst part is how Seiya just refuses to accept Usagi's choices and boundaries and guilt trips her into liking them. He keeps pursuing her even when she's clearly not interested. It's a total disregard for her autonomy and consent, and it's not okay! We need to call out Seiya's toxic behavior for what it is - emotional abuse. It's not romantic, it's harmful. Usagi deserves to be treated with respect and for her choices to be respected.

Sorry if I have mis-gendered Seiya here and there.
Oh yeah, that reminds me of this video I saw.
Spoiler: show
 

Masquerade

Solaris Luna
Nov 22, 2016
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#3
Sorry if I have mis-gendered Seiya here and there.
Misgendering? 90s Seiya is a man. Star Fighter is a woman. That was a clear intent from the anime staff. Their bodies are drawn differently and their voices are pitched differently depending on their physical form.
People accusing fans who refer to the Three Lights using masculine pronouns of "transphobia" need to actually watch the show instead of reading summaries on twitter. No need to apologize.
 
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Clow

Gurges Ater
Jul 29, 2012
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#4
(1) I think Uranus and Neptune undermined the confidence of Usagi as Sailor Moon in S more than Seiya did. After everything that Sailor Moon went through to save Hotaru and the world, Uranus and Neptune challenged her to a duel. Seriously? :sick: I really disliked the last two episodes of S.

(2) I don’t remember the 90’s anime much, but when Seiya asks “Am I not good enough?” then, yes, it feels like Seiya is putting a traumatized girl in a position to choose. That felt toxic. Seiya also disregards the importance of Mamoru in Usagi’s life and tries to pursue a relationship with her. Therefore, yeah, I think Seiya is toxic… but not as toxic as other villains, e.g. Fioré.

Misgendering? 90s Seiya is a man. Star Fighter is a woman. That was a clear intent from the anime staff. Their bodies are drawn differently and their voices are pitched differently depending on their physical form.
People accusing fans who refer to the Three Lights using masculine pronouns of "transphobia" need to actually watch the show instead of reading summaries on twitter. No need to apologize.
I watched some of the episodes of Stars on Pluto and VIZ uses they/theirs/them pronouns.
 

Clow

Gurges Ater
Jul 29, 2012
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#5
I have been reading the Stars manga and Seiya is more likable. Seiya does send unsigned letters to Usagi, but it appears that the intention is to try to warn Usagi about Galaxia.
 
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sapphire91

Stella Nova
Jul 6, 2018
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#6
I have been reading the Stars manga and Seiya is more likable. Seiya does send unsigned letters to Usagi, but it appears that the intention is to try to warn Usagi about Galaxia.
Yeah, the 90s anime turned him into an emotional abuser. I mean sure, in Sailor Moon we have a lot of predatory behavior done by both villains and Tuxedo Mask, but it is not as cunning and playing the victim like Seiya.
 
Apr 30, 2021
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#10
Yes. They are toxic, but I'm definitely biased about this bc my image of him is deeply conditioned by the 90s Italian dub. In the original Japanese version they are slightly less obnoxious.
 
Likes: MsImagination

saintfighteraqua

Aurorae Lunares
Feb 16, 2021
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City of the Four Kings, Isle of Avalon
#11
They are, but I don't think it's intentional on her part.
I think my biggest issue is how she disregards Usagi's emotions for what equates to a crush for Seiya.
In the manga, Seiya knows Mamoru is dead but in the anime they think he's just abandoned her...so both media portray her as a different type of jerk.
If I recall correctly, the manga version of Seiya has her feeling pity for Usagi and being more protective. She's nowhere near as intrusive.
To manga Seiya, it's obvious Usagi is going through trauma and early on there's not much that can be done. Flirting with anyone who just saw their loved one killed and is dealing with the emotional breakdown and denial Usagi is... that's pretty messed up.

Then we have anime Usagi who is not traumatized but is still depressed.
First because she's lonely and then because she's lonely and feeling abandoned.
Seiya here thinks that she's just being ill treated by her boyfriend and wants to comfort Usagi...but does so in inappropriate ways.
I don't think anime Seiya is intentionally being a creepy jerk (despite warnings from their friends and the other girls) but they definitely are.

While Seiya's intentions are to help Usagi, they're being selfish. Everything Seiya does seems to be more about him. And you know what? This is just a temporary dalliance for them. They planned all along to zip out of there with Kakyuu as soon as they found her.
I think that's what makes me dislike Seiya the most in the anime. They were looking for a good time at the expense of a vulnerable girl. I think Seiya thought he cared about her.

As a senshi, anime Seiya tried to undermine Sailor Moon, but I can't totally blame them for that. She'd seen her planet and friends destroyed and, like the other Starlights, believed that she was too naïve. They didn't wish harm on her. They felt angry that she seemed to not grasp the gravity of what was happening. They didn't know everything that had happened on Earth up to this point and how resilient Sailor Moon was.
Seiya wasn't a bad person, they did have some toxic behaviors.
 
Likes: Mathiwn
Sep 6, 2014
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#12
F*ck Viz and their stupid revisionism of a 90s show.
The weird/embarrassing part is there are people who do go back and forth between he/him pronouns and she/her pronouns depending on if they're presenting in "boymode" or "girl mode"

Obviously the Starlights situations is different as they're biologically male in their civilians forms and biologically female as Sailor Senshi but still amusing/frustrating that Viz apparent attempt to come off progressive just made them look foolish and out of touch.


I haven't seen Stars dubbed or Viz's subtitles though so I'm just going off this
 

Masquerade

Solaris Luna
Nov 22, 2016
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#13
As a senshi, anime Seiya tried to undermine Sailor Moon, but I can't totally blame them for that. She'd seen her planet and friends destroyed and, like the other Starlights, believed that she was too naïve. They didn't wish harm on her. They felt angry that she seemed to not grasp the gravity of what was happening. They didn't know everything that had happened on Earth up to this point and how resilient Sailor Moon was.
Seiya wasn't a bad person, they did have some toxic behaviors.
Geez, this just confirms I should never watch the Galaxia arc entirely. So Seiya was literally S Haruka in a ponytail?
 

Clow

Gurges Ater
Jul 29, 2012
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#14
Seiya always came across as S Haruka.

The exception is that Seiya did not attempt to undermine Usagi’s confidence as much as Haruka and Neptune did in S.

After Seiya accepts that Usagi loves Mamoru, Seiya demonstrates the willingness to work with Usagi. At this point, though, the Star Lights won’t let Seiya be near Usagi and the Outer/Inner senshi won’t let Usagi be near Seiya. To sum it up, we have the plot of S recycled: Seiya and Usagi want to fight together (idealism), but each team wishes to do things their own way (realism). As always, Usagi’s idealism wins.
 
Sep 13, 2008
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In the shadows throwing roses at you
#18
F*ck Viz and their stupid revisionism of a 90s show.
so glad I have my old fan sub dvds from the mid 00s cause that is all of my nope
Actually, my bad, Seiya acts the same way in the manga.
basically no version of seiya is good
it's so bad I actually root for Chiba as you all know I hated for decades but not anymore as of last year
 
Sep 19, 2022
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#19
I watched some of the episodes of Stars on Pluto and VIZ uses they/theirs/them pronouns.
What episode did you watch? I only remember them referring to their civilian forms as he/him and their starlight form as she/her in the dub.

In "Seiya & Usagi's nervous date" Yaten says "HIS taste sucks!" when referring to Seiya.

In "Night alone together" Fighter said "Get off HER!" when refering to Maker.

So, unless it was just the dub, I don't think ViZ made them nonbinary.

[edit] Rewording
 
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Jul 5, 2009
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#20
basically no version of seiya is good
I don't think he's that toxic once you've met an unstable fanatical Crystaltard. :googly:




We're lucky we only had to deal with 1 or 2. Sailorspysedna had to deal with a blob of them on Youtube.
 
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