Talking about murdering women even if hypothetically is really making me feel uncomfortable.
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animenerd99
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I have to say, if one of your friends slaps you and your immediate reaction is murder, you...might want to think about counseling. If you're that far from being you when you're angry, that's, uh, not healthy. At all.
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hey_its_rj
^ it wasn't evil tho, it was necessary sometimes you have to use force to get the point across specially for the type of person usagi was. None of those situations were the time to baby and pacify Usagi. You make it seem like she was being abused or beat down, they were simple slaps to get her to come to her senses when it was needed.
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Errrr yeaaah not that I 100 percent agree with everything Nadia is saying but that crap is the sort of logic an abusive parent/significant other would use
Because no violence like that is NOT necessary and saying you have to use force to get a point across would send a bunch of red flags
Because no violence like that is NOT necessary and saying you have to use force to get a point across would send a bunch of red flags
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Memento
In a normal real life situation of course n slapping someone out of their state if mind wouldn't be necessary and would do more harm than good but again....
These were not your normal situations, these were life or death circumstances where they needed usagi to snap to her senses quickly and they did what they had to no harm done she got the point and gathered herself together and come on this is a anime those were mostly likely thrown in for dramatic effect its happens a lot in most shows and movie.
Force doesn't always equal physical force either btw...
If one of my friends intentionally slapped me, my immediate reaction would be shock and fear. I'd definitely want to kill them for that, but I am reasonable enough to try to remove myself from the situation in normal circumstances as I know I could live another day and would lose the fight. Either way, that person would never be my friend again and I would never help them again. I do not put up with assault.
If one of my friends intentionally smacked me in the middle of nowhere or in a situation where I could not flee, alert the authorities, etc. then all bets are off. It's me vs. them, and I don't have an off switch.
I'm not saying it's legal to kill someone for smacking you, but if you can understand being so frustrated with Sailor Moon that you want to hit her to shut her up and "reset" her persona, then you should be able to understand being angry enough at someone for hitting you that you want to make sure they never hit you or anyone else again.
Fortunately, I'm terrible at fighting so I won't act on my desires.
That is true, but in these cases, this is like the law enforcement fighting amongst themselves.
I don't expect anyone to agree 100% with what I have to say.
But we're on the same page of the idea of slapping people to snap them out of it isn't exactly harmless.
It may have been for a dramatic effect, but that doesn't make it the right thing to do even if it had the intended effect.
And in life or death circumstances, some people might respond to a love tap by escalating the violence, even unintentionally. What if the girls had gotten into fisticuffs and got blindsided by an enemy's attack or too close to a cliff? What if instead of making Sailor Moon listen, the slaps made her dig in her heels? Again there was no escape and if a human attacks even a cornered rabbit, it WILL fight back. There's a very good chance a human would fight back as well.
That the slaps were serious and not slapstick humor or instances of comedic sociopathy only makes them worse. Teaching kids to hit their friends for the greater good isn't something you want them to learn...lest they hit a friend who hits back.
If one of my friends intentionally smacked me in the middle of nowhere or in a situation where I could not flee, alert the authorities, etc. then all bets are off. It's me vs. them, and I don't have an off switch.
I'm not saying it's legal to kill someone for smacking you, but if you can understand being so frustrated with Sailor Moon that you want to hit her to shut her up and "reset" her persona, then you should be able to understand being angry enough at someone for hitting you that you want to make sure they never hit you or anyone else again.
Fortunately, I'm terrible at fighting so I won't act on my desires.
Even law enforcement is forbidden to use excessive force when facing a violent situation. 
I don't expect anyone to agree 100% with what I have to say.
But we're on the same page of the idea of slapping people to snap them out of it isn't exactly harmless.It may have been for a dramatic effect, but that doesn't make it the right thing to do even if it had the intended effect.
And in life or death circumstances, some people might respond to a love tap by escalating the violence, even unintentionally. What if the girls had gotten into fisticuffs and got blindsided by an enemy's attack or too close to a cliff? What if instead of making Sailor Moon listen, the slaps made her dig in her heels? Again there was no escape and if a human attacks even a cornered rabbit, it WILL fight back. There's a very good chance a human would fight back as well.
That the slaps were serious and not slapstick humor or instances of comedic sociopathy only makes them worse. Teaching kids to hit their friends for the greater good isn't something you want them to learn...lest they hit a friend who hits back.
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ChampionOfNuggets
That's why you teach kids Sailor Moon is just a TV show and not real and not to copy everything someone does on TV.
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animenerd99
You can teach them that, but kids are still going to imitate what they see on TV.
What makes the slaps such an issue for me, at least in the case of Mars and Mercury, is that they were presented as the "correct" and "courageous" acts. Sailor Moon -- especially Classic -- is a very much an ethically dualistic series built on the premise of friendship. Mars and Mercury weren't punished, chastised, confronted, or even presented as doing something bad. At least Rei pinching Ami, while undetected, was presented as somewhere on the scale of wrong. The same is true of Uranus and her confrontational actions against Moon, which I also dislike but were at least presented as "not right even if for the right reason."
I find it strange how this show can hammer this point home with emotional manipulation and abuse in terms of romance, but fails so egregiously on the part of friendship.
Friends don't intentionally slap friends to hurt them. If you're hanging out with people who do this, they aren't your friends; they're bullies.
What makes the slaps such an issue for me, at least in the case of Mars and Mercury, is that they were presented as the "correct" and "courageous" acts. Sailor Moon -- especially Classic -- is a very much an ethically dualistic series built on the premise of friendship. Mars and Mercury weren't punished, chastised, confronted, or even presented as doing something bad. At least Rei pinching Ami, while undetected, was presented as somewhere on the scale of wrong. The same is true of Uranus and her confrontational actions against Moon, which I also dislike but were at least presented as "not right even if for the right reason."
I find it strange how this show can hammer this point home with emotional manipulation and abuse in terms of romance, but fails so egregiously on the part of friendship.
Friends don't intentionally slap friends to hurt them. If you're hanging out with people who do this, they aren't your friends; they're bullies.
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ChampionOfNuggets
You're taking this waaaaaaaay too seriously.
Giving someone slap in the face isnt right, giving a friend slap in the face in a critical situation might not be right but is justified when their lives (aswell as the fate of the world) were at stake. If Rei slapped Usagi during some small fight in their everyday life that would be a huge red light. But not in any of these cases
A single slap from a friend in a critical situation, without hostile intention isnt violence in my book. Which of course doesnt mean that you can just run around and slap people. Its all about the context.
Also the anime never tried to make it look as something correct or courageos.
By the way the manga also has this where Haruka slaps Minako to calm her down
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Starlight
Err nope, Usagi said she doesnt want to fight anymore. She was about to give up and said she doesnt care about all that stuff. Thats why Rei slapped her - so she wouldnt lose this life that Mamoru protected and that she's stop being selfish in such a dire moment. Of course she was angry and heartbroken but she cared for Usagi aswell. Thats why she shielded her with her own body just 5 minutes later
That's the thing it wasn't intentional.to hurt her but I'm gonna dead it with this...
Think about it there are soldiers who go.to war and are put in life and death circumstances day in and day out when they are on the battlefield and someone decides they want to quit cause they dont wanna fight anymore, do you think they're gonna try to baby him and talk him to snap to out it... especially when it's a mission he's trained for.... of course not he's gonna slapped cursed out etc. To pull his self together it's necessary
Same instance for Usagi...
And another thing wouldn't Usagi be considered a bully.for slapping Rei to go after Yuchiro....
Sorry but Usagi was not a victim in any of those instances nor was she bullied or should it be considered bullying cause it all came from a place of love to snap Usagi back to reality to finish the fight
Think about it there are soldiers who go.to war and are put in life and death circumstances day in and day out when they are on the battlefield and someone decides they want to quit cause they dont wanna fight anymore, do you think they're gonna try to baby him and talk him to snap to out it... especially when it's a mission he's trained for.... of course not he's gonna slapped cursed out etc. To pull his self together it's necessary
Same instance for Usagi...
And another thing wouldn't Usagi be considered a bully.for slapping Rei to go after Yuchiro....
Sorry but Usagi was not a victim in any of those instances nor was she bullied or should it be considered bullying cause it all came from a place of love to snap Usagi back to reality to finish the fight
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SailorSugababe
Are there that many kids who are watching Sailor Moon these days for the slap scenes to be of major concern to begin with? It's mostly 30 year olds who grew up with the DiC dub that censored all the slap scenes anyway who watch the uncut version and it's not like Toei is going to go back and Lucasfy the original masters. Sailor Moon is a show that's almost 30 years old so it's naturally going to have content in it that's dated by modern Western standards. It's the same thing with a lot of Disney princess movies from the 80s and 90s. If anything, Sailor Moon was a step up above a lot of other children's animation at the time for presenting the Sailor Guardians as powerful independent women that saved men from the villains as opposed to a more damsel in distress role. While the DiC dub improved some aspects, it's not entirely free from it's own dated morals. I feel like it's just as problematic the DiC dub made the Sailor Scouts a lot ruder and mean to each other in the dub. I'm not sure it sets up good role models for kids either that Amy tells Serena she looks like a frog or all the mean names the Sailor Scouts call each other in the dub and how much the dub exaggerated their cattiness even more.
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FloraKiraraHime
If a slap is not right, it's not justified.
Intentionally hitting someone to cause them pain is always hostile in my books. I'm not saying one shouldn't want to slap someone, but actually doing it crossed the line. Hitting is violence.
There are instances where hitting someone is justified, but not when you're fighting the enemy and especially not to hurt each other.
That you are defending it indicates that the anime puts hitting people in a positive light.
Sailor Moon is the leader, though. You're justifying mutiny in wartime. The old "stab them in the back and say the enemy did it" trick would be my worry.
If it is a life an death circumstance and someone hits me, their life is the one that is going to end in death. By hitting me, they have made themselves the enemy.
People who get hit are victims. People who hit others are bullies. This isn't that hard.
By that line of thinking, there's no problem with the old dub and its cattiness, because it was a product of its time and is perfectly fine. There is no reason to criticize it because it was a mid-90's product.
No, wait, people do criticize it even though it's old media. So why is the original version excused?
Intentionally hitting someone to cause them pain is always hostile in my books. I'm not saying one shouldn't want to slap someone, but actually doing it crossed the line. Hitting is violence.
There are instances where hitting someone is justified, but not when you're fighting the enemy and especially not to hurt each other.
That you are defending it indicates that the anime puts hitting people in a positive light.
Sailor Moon is the leader, though. You're justifying mutiny in wartime. The old "stab them in the back and say the enemy did it" trick would be my worry.
If it is a life an death circumstance and someone hits me, their life is the one that is going to end in death. By hitting me, they have made themselves the enemy.
People who get hit are victims. People who hit others are bullies. This isn't that hard.
By that line of thinking, there's no problem with the old dub and its cattiness, because it was a product of its time and is perfectly fine. There is no reason to criticize it because it was a mid-90's product.
No, wait, people do criticize it even though it's old media. So why is the original version excused?
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SILVER
And thats the problem: you really see this case as black and white, there's no gray area and the life always has gray areas. Not to mention its another culture and by watching a product from a different culture you have to realize their way of thinking wont be the same as yours. Even to this day slaps happen in the anime, like or or hate it.
Also people criticizing the dub for changing the original product isnt the same as criticizing the original product for its merits/faults
Also people criticizing the dub for changing the original product isnt the same as criticizing the original product for its merits/faults
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Kerochan no Miko
First, this topic raises a binary question. "Do you think that the Usagi slaps were all necessary?" There is a Yes/No value put in the topic, with poll options to clarify any "yes" votes. Blaming me for "black and white" thinking in answering a "black and white" question about violence is blaming the wrong party.
Second, this isn't life. Sailor Moon is a children's cartoon with about as much nuance as He-Man and the Masters of the Universe. In children's cartoons, people who harm other people are usually punished (even if in roundabout ways) or shown the errors of their ways. This did happen in the case of Uranus, as much as I disliked the character's actions. This did not happen in the case of Mercury or Mars, which leads the audience to support their slaps. If the anime itself gives a "yes" to the question, it's condoning violence. Plus, if it were life and things were shades of grey, Sailor Moon hitting back would be in the realm of possibility. People have gotten into fights and then died as a result of fights in real life.
Third, this has nothing to do with with what another culture finds acceptable. The poll is asking us (most of whom are outside that culture) if we think the slaps are necessary. I can accept if you believe the answer is "yes." I object if you imply there is something wrong with me for answering "No" and explaining my reasons.
The dub criticism was bought in here, albeit tangentially, by someone else. Once that has been introduced as an implicit defense ("Well the dub cut it out in the 90's, and the dub is censored/bad/insert negative quality, so the slaps were necessary."), then I can address it.
Criticism is criticism. If it's okay to dislike the dub for cutting out the slaps, it's okay to dislike the original material for having the slaps, If we start restricting the subjects of criticism instead of acknowledging any musings are all our opinions and equally worthless, it's impossible to truly discuss questions like these.
I don't think it was necessary as the DD Girls were still on the attack in spite of Sailor Moon giving up and the others still protected Sailor Moon. Other than hurting Sailor Moon, the slap didn't change much about the situation.
If Mercury had slapped Moon, and Moon got mad and eliminated the DD Girls where they stood, it might have been arguably necessary, but as events panned out, it was just as useless as a slap bet.
Second, this isn't life. Sailor Moon is a children's cartoon with about as much nuance as He-Man and the Masters of the Universe. In children's cartoons, people who harm other people are usually punished (even if in roundabout ways) or shown the errors of their ways. This did happen in the case of Uranus, as much as I disliked the character's actions. This did not happen in the case of Mercury or Mars, which leads the audience to support their slaps. If the anime itself gives a "yes" to the question, it's condoning violence. Plus, if it were life and things were shades of grey, Sailor Moon hitting back would be in the realm of possibility. People have gotten into fights and then died as a result of fights in real life.
Third, this has nothing to do with with what another culture finds acceptable. The poll is asking us (most of whom are outside that culture) if we think the slaps are necessary. I can accept if you believe the answer is "yes." I object if you imply there is something wrong with me for answering "No" and explaining my reasons.
The dub criticism was bought in here, albeit tangentially, by someone else. Once that has been introduced as an implicit defense ("Well the dub cut it out in the 90's, and the dub is censored/bad/insert negative quality, so the slaps were necessary."), then I can address it.
Criticism is criticism. If it's okay to dislike the dub for cutting out the slaps, it's okay to dislike the original material for having the slaps, If we start restricting the subjects of criticism instead of acknowledging any musings are all our opinions and equally worthless, it's impossible to truly discuss questions like these.
I don't think it was necessary as the DD Girls were still on the attack in spite of Sailor Moon giving up and the others still protected Sailor Moon. Other than hurting Sailor Moon, the slap didn't change much about the situation.
If Mercury had slapped Moon, and Moon got mad and eliminated the DD Girls where they stood, it might have been arguably necessary, but as events panned out, it was just as useless as a slap bet.
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