Do you think the manga took the other senshi more like "servants" than "friends"?

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Slowpokeking

Aurorae Lunares
Apr 1, 2020
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#1
The 90s anime and PGSM added a lot to make the Inners very good friends.

But the manga itself didn't focus on other senshi too well, it mostly built on "past life duty". In Cosmos they didn't even get much role in the main plot.
 
Mar 27, 2020
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#2
The manga's intention felt like it was for them to be friends, both with Usagi (their intro episodes sans Minako's) and each other (i.e. Minako and Rei's side story, the outers helping the inners sans Minako, the girls sans Rei enjoying high school together). However, it was ultimately so focused on the royal family that these friendships were hard to believe. Whenever the matter shifted to anything related to Usagi, it was as if they all got stripped of their individuality and became the inner and outer hiveminds, respectively. This is why they sometimes felt more like servants than friends.
 

saintfighteraqua

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#3
In the 90s anime, it felt much more shonen themed in spite of being considered a shojo series.
In shonen anime, friendships are almost always of top importance or at least secondary only to gettin' stronger. There are still usually hierarchies among shonen characters, but everyone still gets a voice and a spotlight.
Also, even when the main character is the "chosen one", they usually have someone they defer to ( a mentor/trainer/guardian).
(There is also almost always a lot of redemption for bad guys who often become rivals or allies).
Another "shojo" series that leans more into "shonen" territory is Magic Knight Rayearth. Here all the main characters are also female, but there's a bigger focus on friendship and even enemies turning ally.

The Sailor Moon manga is definitely heavier on the shojo themes. Naoko Takeuchi was a fan of both shojo and shonen.
In shojo, the story seems to almost always revolve around the female protagonist and her romantic interest while everyone else is just a side character to either support or antagonize her.
It's a very self-centered focus. I don't mean that in a negative way.
It usually works and makes good storytelling, but it does come at a cost and in Sailor Moon, that cost is everyone not part of the Moon family.
It's up to individual fans to critique it compared to the 90s anime if one style is ultimately better than the other. But I don't think anyone would argue that the manga did a better job at fleshing out Usagi's friends compared to the anime.

I used to really love reading shojo, but even one of my favorites: Fruits Basket, is so heavily focused on Tohru that the huge cast can blur around her.
Meanwhile, FMA (written by a woman, so proof that it isn't just a male writer vs female writer thing) is shonen and while the focus is on the two brothers, I felt like the bonds were stronger between them and the huge cast there.
In the end, while I can appreciate Shojo, it usually ends up feeling a bit too self-absorbed and the main character a Mary Sue, meanwhile, Shonen often has me bawling my eyes out even if on the surface it seems to be just about fighting and war.
 

Chiibihime

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#4
, it usually ends up feeling a bit too self-absorbed and the main character a Mary Sue,
I feel the term "Mary Sue" is grossly overused...it's basically for describing a character who is perfect in every way, whom everyone loves and admires; those who don't love her are punished and she has no character flaws and constantly breaks the rules in her own universe.

It was first coined from some Star Trek fanfic...of an author inserting their OC who was described as all of the above.

The women from Disney Remakes are MUCH closer to being "Mary Sues" than your average shoujo MC. :roll: They don't even have flaws at the START of the movies...so there is absolutely NO room for them to grow...so they're about as interesting as planks of wood.

I also don't agree that shoujo is anymore "self-absorbed" than shounen series. Shounen series are PLENTY self-absorbed too; esp the ever so popular 'overpowered MC with a female harem' trope that is DOMINATING the LN genre for the shounen demographic.

Shoujo can be just as focused on 'friendship' as shounen series too. Especially shoujo that do not have romance in them.
 
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saintfighteraqua

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#5
I feel the term "Mary Sue" is grossly overused...it's basically for describing a character who is perfect in every way, whom everyone loves and admires; those who don't love her are punished and she has no character flaws and constantly breaks the rules in her own universe.
I mean, besides being quirky, that's basically manga Usagi.

Of course not every shojo series has a Mary Sue, especially not those that lean towards something more serious.
I wouldn't consider Tohru Honda one, even if she is the focus of the entire universe in that series, or Sakura from CCS. It's mostly the ones that focus solely on romance. Mary Sue might be overused, but I think most people know what is meant when it's used and I can't think of another term for a lot of those heroines.

I'm not attacking Shojo, it's what got me into anime and manga.

I absolutely agree about Disney remakes, especially *gag* Emma Watson's Belle. What a train wreck of a depiction.
However, even if she leans that way, I think Cinderella was a good balance. She isn't flawed in the usual sense, but she's trying hard to be a good person and not let emotions boil over.
I don't mind a pure hearted character, and as I stated, I don't necessarily have an issue with it being a self absorbed character, I don't think that has to be negative, I just see it more often in shojo and woman-centric media as a whole.

Also, I do hate harems. Multiple love interests across a story can be fun, but an average guy with a harem fawning over him (usually for no good reason) is just author wish-fulfillment most of the time.
Most of the shonen I read doesn't fall into that, though: My Hero, Dragon Ball, One Piece, FMA, Yu Yu Hakusho, Fairy Tail. The last one I can remember watching myself was way back with Tenchi Muyo.
 

Chiibihime

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#6
I mean, besides being quirky, that's basically manga Usagi.
See, I don't agree with that at all. Manga Usagi DOES have flaws; underneath all that power, she is VERY very vulnerable when you take Mamoru and her friends away from her.
The girl killed herself THREE TIMES FFS.

*She takes her life as the moon princess after Endymion dies. Then she does the same thing after she has to murder him as Sailor Moon. The only reason she comes back is because the senshi give all of their lifeforce to her.

*She becomes jealous of Chibiusa when there was no reason to be...and she gets kidnapped by Prince Dimande.

*She was so traumatized from seeing Mamoru die IN FRONT of her in Stars, that her own mind erased that memory. She didn't want to face it. Her monologue was "I'm feeling so scared...I'm afraid to move forward...like if I take one step, I'll lose everything."

That's not Mary Sue talk lol

Then after she confronts Galaxia and all the Star seeds are thrown into the cauldron, she gives up. Just like that.
"What do I have to fight for now? I don't have a reason anymore."

Like yes, she got another chance...but that wasn't her doing; it was the Cauldron Guardian's decision.

Like I said, take away her precious relationships and the girl goes to pieces. I really can't think of her as a Sue when she comes off as having such a fragile heart. The only reason she doesn't get brainwashed or corrupted like when the other characters do is because of the Silver Crystal.

......yeah, don't get me started on how BAD the entire writing was for Beauty and the Beast 2017. I'll start ranting :lol:

I think Cinderella came out before the "Let's Make Everything Woke Now" trend Disney started. So yes, she retains a more human personality than Remake heroines who came after her.


The last one I can remember watching myself was way back with Tenchi Muyo.
I actually quite like Tenchi Muyo as a series...Tenchi himself.....UGH...I never understood why the girls loved him so much xD HE'S NOT EVEN GOOD-LOOKING.

But now I understand that it's simply wish fulfillment and the male audience is just supposed to insert themselves into Tenchi.
I think the interesting lore, world-building, and especially the female cast and side characters are enough to save the series from being bad though.
 

Slowpokeking

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#7
In the 90s anime, it felt much more shonen themed in spite of being considered a shojo series.
In shonen anime, friendships are almost always of top importance or at least secondary only to gettin' stronger. There are still usually hierarchies among shonen characters, but everyone still gets a voice and a spotlight.
Also, even when the main character is the "chosen one", they usually have someone they defer to ( a mentor/trainer/guardian).
(There is also almost always a lot of redemption for bad guys who often become rivals or allies).
Another "shojo" series that leans more into "shonen" territory is Magic Knight Rayearth. Here all the main characters are also female, but there's a bigger focus on friendship and even enemies turning ally.

The Sailor Moon manga is definitely heavier on the shojo themes. Naoko Takeuchi was a fan of both shojo and shonen.
In shojo, the story seems to almost always revolve around the female protagonist and her romantic interest while everyone else is just a side character to either support or antagonize her.
It's a very self-centered focus. I don't mean that in a negative way.
It usually works and makes good storytelling, but it does come at a cost and in Sailor Moon, that cost is everyone not part of the Moon family.
It's up to individual fans to critique it compared to the 90s anime if one style is ultimately better than the other. But I don't think anyone would argue that the manga did a better job at fleshing out Usagi's friends compared to the anime.

I used to really love reading shojo, but even one of my favorites: Fruits Basket, is so heavily focused on Tohru that the huge cast can blur around her.
Meanwhile, FMA (written by a woman, so proof that it isn't just a male writer vs female writer thing) is shonen and while the focus is on the two brothers, I felt like the bonds were stronger between them and the huge cast there.
In the end, while I can appreciate Shojo, it usually ends up feeling a bit too self-absorbed and the main character a Mary Sue, meanwhile, Shonen often has me bawling my eyes out even if on the surface it seems to be just about fighting and war.
I don't agree, quite a few Shojo anime wrote friendship well. Actually some of their romance were dull.


See, I don't agree with that at all. Manga Usagi DOES have flaws; underneath all that power, she is VERY very vulnerable when you take Mamoru and her friends away from her.
The girl killed herself THREE TIMES FFS.

*She takes her life as the moon princess after Endymion dies. Then she does the same thing after she has to murder him as Sailor Moon. The only reason she comes back is because the senshi give all of their lifeforce to her.

*She becomes jealous of Chibiusa when there was no reason to be...and she gets kidnapped by Prince Dimande.

*She was so traumatized from seeing Mamoru die IN FRONT of her in Stars, that her own mind erased that memory. She didn't want to face it. Her monologue was "I'm feeling so scared...I'm afraid to move forward...like if I take one step, I'll lose everything."

That's not Mary Sue talk lol

Then after she confronts Galaxia and all the Star seeds are thrown into the cauldron, she gives up. Just like that.
"What do I have to fight for now? I don't have a reason anymore."

Like yes, she got another chance...but that wasn't her doing; it was the Cauldron Guardian's decision.

Like I said, take away her precious relationships and the girl goes to pieces. I really can't think of her as a Sue when she comes off as having such a fragile heart. The only reason she doesn't get brainwashed or corrupted like when the other characters do is because of the Silver Crystal.

......yeah, don't get me started on how BAD the entire writing was for Beauty and the Beast 2017. I'll start ranting :lol:

I think Cinderella came out before the "Let's Make Everything Woke Now" trend Disney started. So yes, she retains a more human personality than Remake heroines who came after her.




I actually quite like Tenchi Muyo as a series...Tenchi himself.....UGH...I never understood why the girls loved him so much xD HE'S NOT EVEN GOOD-LOOKING.

But now I understand that it's simply wish fulfillment and the male audience is just supposed to insert themselves into Tenchi.
I think the interesting lore, world-building, and especially the female cast and side characters are enough to save the series from being bad though.
I don't think manga Usagi is a Sue, but sometimes she did get too much attention and her friends were too bland. So it's like Naoko put a lot of wish fulfilling into it.

Yeah, Tenchi Muyo got very good world building, but the characters and romance were meh.


I feel the term "Mary Sue" is grossly overused...it's basically for describing a character who is perfect in every way, whom everyone loves and admires; those who don't love her are punished and she has no character flaws and constantly breaks the rules in her own universe.

It was first coined from some Star Trek fanfic...of an author inserting their OC who was described as all of the above.

The women from Disney Remakes are MUCH closer to being "Mary Sues" than your average shoujo MC. :roll: They don't even have flaws at the START of the movies...so there is absolutely NO room for them to grow...so they're about as interesting as planks of wood.

I also don't agree that shoujo is anymore "self-absorbed" than shounen series. Shounen series are PLENTY self-absorbed too; esp the ever so popular 'overpowered MC with a female harem' trope that is DOMINATING the LN genre for the shounen demographic.

Shoujo can be just as focused on 'friendship' as shounen series too. Especially shoujo that do not have romance in them.
Totally, quite a few shojo manga wrote friendship well.
 

Chiibihime

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#8
sometimes she did get too much attention and her friends were too bland.
I agree with that, at least. It's like...we don't even get to know the Inner Senshi THAT well until the SuperS Dream arcs o_o Though I think some of the side stories did help a bit. You also don't feel the strong friendship bonds between Usagi and the Inners in the manga NEARLY as well as you do in the OG anime series. In that version, you see for yourself how and why she became friends with them all.

Ami's words "Being around Usagi-chan just sort of makes people happy."

And like...that's it. She brings joy to others' lives. Ami likes her because she knows how to have fun. Rei likes her because she's easy to troll and I think Rei is honestly bored when she's NOT arguing with Usagi. :lol: Makoto likes her because she befriended her when everyone else was too scared to get near her. And Minako likes her because they both have a lot in common and think on the same wavelength.
 

saintfighteraqua

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#9
I agree with that, at least. It's like...we don't even get to know the Inner Senshi THAT well until the SuperS Dream arcs o_o Though I think some of the side stories did help a bit. You also don't feel the strong friendship bonds between Usagi and the Inners in the manga NEARLY as well as you do in the OG anime series. In that version, you see for yourself how and why she became friends with them all.

Ami's words "Being around Usagi-chan just sort of makes people happy."

And like...that's it. She brings joy to others' lives. Ami likes her because she knows how to have fun. Rei likes her because she's easy to troll and I think Rei is honestly bored when she's NOT arguing with Usagi. :lol: Makoto likes her because she befriended her when everyone else was too scared to get near her. And Minako likes her because they both have a lot in common and think on the same wavelength.
I know a lot of people hate on anime Rei, but I think she's one of the best changes they made in the anime.
I have a best friend who is like that and thank goodness...who knows what kind of self-righteous brat I'd have become without him as a teenager.
 

Lady Pen

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#11
Worse.

They were slaves. And.... come on!!! No character in the manga tells off Usagi. Nobody. Even though she's got many flaws (one of them being grossly selfish) everyone praises her, and if she does something wrong their slaves will be there to give advice, take care of her, brush her hair, cry and mourn with her, and so on.

That's not mature, and isn't healthy either if you ask me.
 

saintfighteraqua

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#12
One of the things that made the anime so meaningful was how we saw Usagi grow as a person in the first season. She was still a lazy, whiny glutton...but she went from being almost totally self-absorbed surrounded by a group of mostly superficial friends at school, to someone who became aware of how others were feeling and willing not only to sacrifice her own momentary happiness, but her life for her friends.
Season 1 can stand alone because each character (except maybe Minako, due to how late she's introduced) gets an arc and grows.

When they are facing the DD Girls (Those are Cs at most, false advertising) we really get to see how far the girls have come.
When they die protecting Usagi, t doesn't feel like they are her servants, they are protecting a friend and to me, it never feels like: "Must protect the Moon Princess because of past life duty", they honestly love this girl for who she is.

When she begs them to go home and says she'll hand over the crystal to Beryl to protect them, she's scared, but she's scared she'll lose them more than she's afraid for herself.
And this is where we see how much she's grown with Rei. And how much Rei has grown because of Usagi.
(I can't find a clip in Japanese, with subtitles that shows the first part of the scene, but the Viz version is close enough and catches the meaning well enough:

Hearing one of the girls scream out: "USAGI!" when they fear for her is so much more powerful and heart rending than when they scream "PRINCESS!" in Eternal, at least it is to me. She's still their princess but it's obvious how much they love her as Usagi and the duty thing is secondary.

There are a few moments in the manga I can think of that have this kind of feeling. One is when Calaveras almost captures Minako and Usagi saves her just in time. The emotion in that panel is good and it totally feels like honest friendship.
Then there's the scene when Usagi is happy because she gets to go to high school with them.
It's not that the manga is devoid of friendship aspects, it just doesn't build on it as well as the anime and the girls acting more like retainers doesn't help, either. I don't think this is something Naoko is incapable of, she just chose to focus more on duty and destiny.

I still believe that the manga is enhanced by the 90s anime in almost every way. When you consume both, it makes the manga feel more complete, like it fills in the blanks and makes the world more tangible.
 
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Outer Space
#13
Worse.

They were slaves. And.... come on!!! No character in the manga tells off Usagi. Nobody. Even though she's got many flaws (one of them being grossly selfish) everyone praises her, and if she does something wrong their slaves will be there to give advice, take care of her, brush her hair, cry and mourn with her, and so on.

That's not mature, and isn't healthy either if you ask me.
Would the last episode of S qualify as someone telling her off? Where Uranus and Neptune telling her off or just testing her? They seemed to really find her unfit for the role until she proved her power a little later.
 
Likes: SM458

Chiibihime

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#14
I know a lot of people hate on anime Rei, but I think she's one of the best changes they made in the anime.
She grows on you lol. Definitely a tsundere. "I'm gonna act like I don't care but I so obviously do that it's ridiculous."

I think like Luna, she is hard on Usagi because she wants her to improve herself. They are VERY close in the anime; not at first, sure...but by the end of the first season? Yes.

And the fact that in Stars, they actually have a WHISTLE for Rei to come running to protect Usagi was rich. I laughed pretty hard at that.:lol:
 
Apr 19, 2024
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#16
Yeah, Tenchi Muyo got very good world building, but the characters and romance were meh.
I adore the world building in Tenchi Muyo, and I do like the character dynamics except for the romance. The fact the series is still enjoyable even if we disconsider the romance (what the heck do all these characters see in that bland Tenchi anyway?!) is a testament to its qualities, IMO.

I know a lot of people hate on anime Rei, but I think she's one of the best changes they made in the anime.
I have a best friend who is like that and thank goodness...who knows what kind of self-righteous brat I'd have become without him as a teenager.
Absolutely! Not to mention that manga Rei, if we fill in the gaps enough to consider her having a proper personality, is absolutely dull and unrealistic. It's unbelievable that a 14-year old could be THAT serious and THAT poised, let alone hang out with the likes of Usagi and Minako and not chastise and look down on them at every opportunity. The anime dynamic between Rei and Usagi makes a lot more sense and Rei's personality is much more similar to what we'd expect from a teenager.

One of the things that made the anime so meaningful was how we saw Usagi grow as a person in the first season. She was still a lazy, whiny glutton...but she went from being almost totally self-absorbed surrounded by a group of mostly superficial friends at school, to someone who became aware of how others were feeling and willing not only to sacrifice her own momentary happiness, but her life for her friends.
Season 1 can stand alone because each character (except maybe Minako, due to how late she's introduced) gets an arc and grows.

When they are facing the DD Girls (Those are Cs at most, false advertising) we really get to see how far the girls have come.
When they die protecting Usagi, t doesn't feel like they are her servants, they are protecting a friend and to me, it never feels like: "Must protect the Moon Princess because of past life duty", they honestly love this girl for who she is.

When she begs them to go home and says she'll hand over the crystal to Beryl to protect them, she's scared, but she's scared she'll lose them more than she's afraid for herself.
And this is where we see how much she's grown with Rei. And how much Rei has grown because of Usagi.
(I can't find a clip in Japanese, with subtitles that shows the first part of the scene, but the Viz version is close enough and catches the meaning well enough:

Hearing one of the girls scream out: "USAGI!" when they fear for her is so much more powerful and heart rending than when they scream "PRINCESS!" in Eternal, at least it is to me. She's still their princess but it's obvious how much they love her as Usagi and the duty thing is secondary.
You see, people complain about 90s anime Usagi not growing up and being a clumsy crybaby to the end, but I think such criticism is misguided at best. Usagi's collection of moments like the one you've pointed out only pile up in the anime, and every time we see her more and more resolute when she finally pulls herself together and gets to action (I can't imagine Classic Season Usagi being that unabated in her resolution not to sacrifice Hotaru as she was in the S finale, and the difference in how resolute and confident she is in her own victory in the Classic finale and in SuperS finale). By the Stars Arc, manga Usagi is basically devoid of any of her quirks, there's no being late, no being clumsy, no anything other than the "oh how our beautiful heroine is rising to the occasion". It not only feels one dimensional but also unrealistic (see a pattern here, anyone?). As much as people grow up and change, they continue being who they are and carrying most, if not all, their little quirks. Stars Usagi is either in distress or in heroic mode, the ditzy girl is all but gone. I could accept that she'd be taken over by mourning or something, but even her mourning is all but glossed over in favour of "action" and "story progressing". IMO, manga Usagi gets duller and duller with each arc.

I still believe that the manga is enhanced by the 90s anime in almost every way. When you consume both, it makes the manga feel more complete, like it fills in the blanks and makes the world more tangible.
You know, us anime fans are often accused of being blinded by nostalgia, but I find most of the time it's the other way around. People often say we hate on the manga or Crystal because we can't accept these works for what they are and always hold them against the original anime, but I'd say if one actually took the manga and Crystal on their own terms, for what they are, without any sort of nostalgia for the 90s anime, chances are one would most likely not care for the manga or Crystal much at all. I stand by my opinion that while the 90s anime can stand on its own even with all the signs of its age, the manga and Crystal simply cannot.

Would the last episode of S qualify as someone telling her off? Where Uranus and Neptune telling her off or just testing her? They seemed to really find her unfit for the role until she proved her power a little later.
I'm not Lady Pen, but I'd say both. It all turned out okay, but I can't blame Neptune and Uranus for holding Moon up to task. Sailor Moon was indeed risking a lot, wasn't she?

Lol what are you talking about? Her mom, Luna, her brat brother, Luna, Mamoru, Luna, Chibiusa, Luna...the list GOES ON...:roll:
The "telling off" in the manga sound more like advising, warning and playful teasing than proper telling off, especially compared to the anime (or to how people behave in the real life.

And, to add to @Slowpokeking 's original question, not only does the narrative treat the senshi like servants in the manga, they voluntarily shear themselves of any individuality whatsoever because of their duty. They don't protect Usagi because they love her or because they are grateful, they basically erase themselves to fall in line and do what's expected - heck, in the Dream Arc they basically say they won't let their dreams get in their way of their duty. Treating them like servants is putting things mildly.
 

Slowpokeking

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#17
I adore the world building in Tenchi Muyo, and I do like the character dynamics except for the romance. The fact the series is still enjoyable even if we disconsider the romance (what the heck do all these characters see in that bland Tenchi anyway?!) is a testament to its qualities, IMO.
tenchi universe has good romance/characters, but that's all.

I know a lot of people hate on anime Rei, but I think she's one of the best changes they made in the anime.
I have a best friend who is like that and thank goodness...who knows what kind of self-righteous brat I'd have become without him as a teenager.
Anime Rei is adored by many ppl, she is Usagi's best friend.

Only PGSM Rei could probably be considered as a contender.
 

saintfighteraqua

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#18
PGS Rei is the best of both versions. She feels like manga Rei but has many of the things that make anime Rei so lovable, just toned down.

I still love the manga...Crystal, I am very mixed on. I can enjoy it from time to time and it has it's positives.
PGSM is fun, but I really have to be in the mood. I also am not a fan of final episode after the series ends. I really wish it would have continued, even if that may not have been for the best, seeing live action Black Moon and Death Busters would have been so much fun in that version.
But the original anime is top for me. I can acknowledge it's issues but it also has more strengths.
 

Talentless Fool

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#19
One of the things that made the anime so meaningful was how we saw Usagi grow as a person in the first season. She was still a lazy, whiny glutton...but she went from being almost totally self-absorbed surrounded by a group of mostly superficial friends at school, to someone who became aware of how others were feeling and willing not only to sacrifice her own momentary happiness, but her life for her friends.
Season 1 can stand alone because each character (except maybe Minako, due to how late she's introduced) gets an arc and grows.

When they are facing the DD Girls (Those are Cs at most, false advertising) we really get to see how far the girls have come.
When they die protecting Usagi, t doesn't feel like they are her servants, they are protecting a friend and to me, it never feels like: "Must protect the Moon Princess because of past life duty", they honestly love this girl for who she is.

When she begs them to go home and says she'll hand over the crystal to Beryl to protect them, she's scared, but she's scared she'll lose them more than she's afraid for herself.
And this is where we see how much she's grown with Rei. And how much Rei has grown because of Usagi.
Amen to all that. :clap::clap::clap:

Hearing one of the girls scream out: "USAGI!" when they fear for her is so much more powerful and heart rending than when they scream "PRINCESS!" in Eternal, at least it is to me. She's still their princess but it's obvious how much they love her as Usagi and the duty thing is secondary.
In Nehenelia mini-arc, they do start to overdo with the whole 'Purincesu! Purinsu!' but again the focus is not on destiny but on the unbreakable bonds they have developed over the time they spent together.
Later on, one of the major messages of Stars is renouncing this whole royalty status and destiny nonsense and instead live life as normal teenagers.

Yes, the girls will stand up whenever there's a threat on the horizon but they'll have a normal, private life nonetheless.

There are a few moments in the manga I can think of that have this kind of feeling. One is when Calaveras almost captures Minako and Usagi saves her just in time. The emotion in that panel is good and it totally feels like honest friendship.
Then there's the scene when Usagi is happy because she gets to go to high school with them.
It's not that the manga is devoid of friendship aspects, it just doesn't build on it as well as the anime and the girls acting more like retainers doesn't help, either. I don't think this is something Naoko is incapable of, she just chose to focus more on duty and destiny.
You know when during the finale of Infinity, so many people thought that the scene of Usagi and the girls of Stars' premiere was being referenced instead of it being from the manga... speaks volume of the 'friendship' aspect of the manga retained in the minds of the fans. :P

I still believe that the manga is enhanced by the 90s anime in almost every way. When you consume both, it makes the manga feel more complete, like it fills in the blanks and makes the world more tangible.
What?!
Are you saying instead of embracing the mysterious mystery of the manga, it's better to consume the anime to fill in the holes of the manga?
The 90s anime embellishes the reading experience of the manga??
YOU FIEND!!!

I adore the world building in Tenchi Muyo, and I do like the character dynamics except for the romance. The fact the series is still enjoyable even if we disconsider the romance (what the heck do all these characters see in that bland Tenchi anyway?!) is a testament to its qualities, IMO.
There are a lot of shoujo (whether it's romance with fantasy involved or not) that have lots of interesting supporting characters who feel like characters while the focus is still on the main girl.
I don't understand why people would believe because the main heroine is Usagi that nobody else should have a moment of spotlight. :unsure:

Absolutely! Not to mention that manga Rei, if we fill in the gaps enough to consider her having a proper personality, is absolutely dull and unrealistic. It's unbelievable that a 14-year old could be THAT serious and THAT poised, let alone hang out with the likes of Usagi and Minako and not chastise and look down on them at every opportunity. The anime dynamic between Rei and Usagi makes a lot more sense and Rei's personality is much more similar to what we'd expect from a teenager.
I'll never understand why so many people love manga Rei or even praise her.

For one, she's a professional flip-flopper.
Dark Kingdom = I'm a man hater, ice-princess and hate life.
Black Moon = uh... I exist? I don't exist?? I don't know life.
Infinity = I don't care about romance and sheet. I'm a serious miko and I have like 2 scenes.
Dream = I'm super horny and I do LOVE men! And I mean, I~DO~!
Stars = To hell with men, I'm a lesbian now I guess.

Not to mention, it's worst if you take into account Casablanca.
Rei ends up being a girl who has been abused and thrown away by the men she trusted in her life and never actually heals from this trauma instead either hating men or throwing away any chance at a normal, happy life.
She forever runs away from confronting the real monsters of her life (her father) and instead pledges allegiance to a girl who has everything she wants in life and wouldn't give her a time of the day.

IMO, manga Usagi gets duller and duller with each arc.
Past the Dark Kingdom arc, Usagi and the Sailor Moon manga starts to slowly morph into a power fantasy of Takeuchi through which she can vicariously live through and be the Queen of the world.
Usagi is surrounded by high ranking members of high society who are either more talented, skilled, beautiful than herself yet deem her more precious than life itself.

Usagi is not just a self-insert. All writers pour from their own experiences and people in their life to write stories.
The problem with Usagi is that as time goes by, she becomes PERFECT and without flaws.
If she is sad, she is in the right.
If she is hurt, she is in the right.
If she is angry, she is in the right.
If she is in pain, she is in the right.
Whatever might happened, she is always in the right.

All the focus is solely and EXPLICTLY on her alone.
All events or characters that do not involve her are completely irrelevant.

You know, us anime fans are often accused of being blinded by nostalgia, but I find most of the time it's the other way around. People often say we hate on the manga or Crystal because we can't accept these works for what they are and always hold them against the original anime, but I'd say if one actually took the manga and Crystal on their own terms, for what they are, without any sort of nostalgia for the 90s anime, chances are one would most likely not care for the manga or Crystal much at all. I stand by my opinion that while the 90s anime can stand on its own even with all the signs of its age, the manga and Crystal simply cannot.

I'm not Lady Pen, but I'd say both. It all turned out okay, but I can't blame Neptune and Uranus for holding Moon up to task. Sailor Moon was indeed risking a lot, wasn't she?
Haven't people still not understand what this scene meant?

Has nobody here ever watched a Nekketsu Shounen/Shounen of the 80s/90s?

It's the typical final brawl of the arrogant and condescending rival who looked down on the protagonist the entire arc, finally recognizing the hero's worth and strength and in order to prove that to everybody, shows it in a extravagant manner that is a one on one fight and proving that the hero has indeed surpassed them.

And, to add to @Slowpokeking 's original question, not only does the narrative treat the senshi like servants in the manga, they voluntarily shear themselves of any individuality whatsoever because of their duty. They don't protect Usagi because they love her or because they are grateful, they basically erase themselves to fall in line and do what's expected - heck, in the Dream Arc they basically say they won't let their dreams get in their way of their duty. Treating them like servants is putting things mildly.
The whole of the first part of Dream feels even more like filler.

First, the friendship (and even fleshing out of the girls) comes out like a sore thumb in hindsight.

These girls have been friends for what 2 years now but they never knew that Ami's mother was a doctor?
Ami, who is a very lonely kid?
Usagi never spent time with her I guess. I'm sure 90s Usagi would have urged her way into her mom's apartment and applauded how amazing of a person Ami is to her mom and would push the mother/daughter to spend more time together.
Or after 4 years, it's only now that we're learning Rei is proficient in the arc?
Does this even come back into the story? No, so why does it even exist?
To superficially give significance to the Flame Sniper, an attack which accomplishes nothing.

The message of the manga is really disturbing.
Because the girls forfeiting their dreams and future is NOT regarded as a bad thing (while the 90s anime actually does!).
In the end, it proclaims that girls having to abide by what society expects of them and living under the rule of what their destiny has decided for them (expect for Usagi of course) is the right way of living.

Let's not forget that Takeuchi wrote a whole song about Haruka professing she'll forever hold on to her unrequited love for Usagi.

I can only march towards the ends of glory,
The kiss I left on your lips are proof of my oath,
If I ever keep running to go beyond the morning glow,
What you carved into my heart shall shine of gold,
It's the Initial of U.

Why did you let go of my hand,
From the dried teardrops of yours are pieces of my dream,
THE SILVER MIRROR WASHED AWAY INTO THE OCEAN (Stop disrespecting Michiru, Naoko!)
So it was decided by the future,
I still believe there will be a day when I can embrace you again,
What I left on your lips is the promise of that.

Something tells me she's not singing about Michiru-sama.
 

Lady Pen

Aurorae Lunares
Mar 12, 2021
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#20
What really gets me is that even in 2024, there are still fools who actually believe the so-called friendship between the girls in the manga—and that pathetic reboot—is genuine. And to make matters worse, there are people who think you need to imagine the stories, the characters, and the worldbuilding; it’s beyond laughable. It’s like they’ve never grown up as readers. But the real kicker? They look down on those who actually have a shred of sense, as if they’re the ones who know better. Utterly delusional.