Do you think villains got redeemed too much sometimes?

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Sep 6, 2014
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#81
It was especially sad for Koan, since he made her believe strongly in something that wasn't even real and took advantage of her emotions for him. She deserves better. With Rubeus's character, he seems to be incapable of love at all from what he appears to be.
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Also iirc he basically encouraged her to go kill herself since the energy bomb was suppose to destroy everything within range including her.
 
Apr 3, 2021
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#83
Also iirc he basically encouraged her to go kill herself since the energy bomb was suppose to destroy everything within range including her.
Yeah I remember that too. He deserved what he got from Esmeraude. I feel like Rubeus is very similar to Viluy by personality, in Sailor Moon S. They are both cold hearted and deserved to die. Viluy basically insulted and emotionally attacked Kaori for being back from the dead, and that her revival was a waste. That is just my opinion though, I could be totally wrong lol. Viluy was even cold towards Tomoe as well. In one of the scenes of episode 122 season 3, she was spiteful towards both of them by calling them idiots and they were just basically standing around.
 
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Apr 1, 2020
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#84
Yeah I remember that too. He deserved what he got from Esmeraude. I feel like Rubeus is very similar to Viluy by personality, in Sailor Moon S. They are both cold hearted and deserved to die. Viluy basically insulted and emotionally attacked Kaori for being back from the dead, and that her revival was a waste. That is just my opinion though, I could be totally wrong lol. Viluy was even cold towards Tomoe as well. In one of the scenes of episode 122 season 3, she was spiteful towards both of them by calling them idiots and they were just basically standing around.
But still they showed his last moment with fear and told us that he is still a human being while he deserves this.
 
Sep 6, 2014
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#85
But still they showed his last moment with fear and told us that he is still a human being while he deserves this.
Yeah he was going to die. That doesn’t make a good person or worthy of redemption. He was a monster and was hoisted by his own petard.

Easily the second most evil character in R after Wiseman with Esmeraude as a somewhat distant 3rd.
 
Apr 1, 2020
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#86
Yeah he was going to die. That doesn’t make a good person or worthy of redemption. He was a monster and was hoisted by his own petard.

Easily the second most evil character in R after Wiseman with Esmeraude as a somewhat distant 3rd.
He wasn't a good person or worthy of redemption, but he is still shown as a human being who would fear for death.

It was not to whitewash him, but let us know that human can do evil things like that. So we can't just think such thing would not happen to us, we need to be careful not to walk to the same path.
 
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Sep 6, 2014
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#87
So I decided to do a breakdown

Jadeite- Never redeemed
Nephrite- Redeemed but dies
Zoicite- Never redeemed
Kunzite- Never redeemed
Beryl- Never redeemed
Metaria- Never redeemed

Ail- Redeemed
En- Redeemed

Koan-redeemed
Berthier-redeemed
Petz- redeemed
Kalvarez- redeemed
Rubeus- never redeemed
Esmeraude- never redeemed
Safir- redeemed but dies
Demande- redeemed but dies
Wiseman- never redeemed

Dr. Tomoe- redeemed
Kaolinite- never redeemed
Eudial- never redeemed
Mimete- never redeemed
Tellu- never redeemed
Viluy- never redeemed
Cyphrin and Ptiol- never redeemed
Mistress 9- never redeemed
Pharaoh 90-never redeemed

Nehelenia-redeemed
Zirconia-never redeemed
Fish Eye- redeemed
Hawk Eye- redeemed
Tiger Eye-redeemed
Cere Cere- redeemed
Jun Jun-redeemed
Vesa Vesa- redeemed
Palla Palla-redeemed

Galaxia-redeemed
Iron Mouse-never redeemed
Tin Cat- never redeemed
Aluminum Siren-never redeemed
Lead Crow-never redeemed

Fiore- redeemed but dies (?)
Kesenian blossom-never redeemed
Princess Snow Kaguya- never redeemed
Fairy boy 1*- never redeemed
Fairy boy 2*- never redeemed
Fairy boy 3*- never redeemed
Badiane- never redeemed

Villains who die evil- 56. 52 percent

Villains reformed and move on- 34.78 percent

Villains who die after turning good- 8.7 percent


* I don’t remember the names of the 3 Fairy boys who work for Badiane and I’m not about to learn. Also I know they didn’t “die” but turn into birds. I’m still counting it as a death since they reverted to these forms after defeat

I’m also obviously not counting foot soldiers, monsters of the day, or brainwashed characters like Endymion and Black Lady
 

Tsundereshipper

Lumen Cinererum
Jun 17, 2019
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#90
I would have loved to see more back story on Diamond and Saphir too. Their storylines were too rushed in my opinion.
Yeah same here, I would've loved to get more info on their childhood on Nemesis and how they met and joined up with Esmeraude, Rubues & the Sisters. (What I would give for a 90's anime BMC spinoff in particular!)

When you say their storyline was too rushed, do you mean you would've liked to have gotten more lore on the BMC and why they even had to be cleansed in the first place? Because if so I agree, the manga gives us a very detailed background on why the BMC were banished (refused immortality) but in the 90's anime the Silver Crystal granting longevity doesn't exist, so what did they even need to be cleansed of?

I'm still sticking to my headcanon that they're a clan of half demons and the cleansing was originally meant to turn them fully human and get rid of their demonic powers such as Demande's 3rd eye and such. Would make sense why the Ayakashi Sisters are named that since Ayakashi is just another word for Demon in Japanese.


Yeah I remember that too. He deserved what he got from Esmeraude. I feel like Rubeus is very similar to Viluy by personality, in Sailor Moon S. They are both cold hearted and deserved to die. Viluy basically insulted and emotionally attacked Kaori for being back from the dead, and that her revival was a waste. That is just my opinion though, I could be totally wrong lol. Viluy was even cold towards Tomoe as well. In one of the scenes of episode 122 season 3, she was spiteful towards both of them by calling them idiots and they were just basically standing around.
Rubeus I believe is really the only fully evil "human" member of the clan. It's so weird how he's a member being the way he is in the 90's anime. In the 90's anime the BMC are portrayed as ultimately well-intentioned extremists who were just used by Wiseman, whereas in the manga they're actually evil. Someone like 90's Rubeus better fits in with the Manga/Crystal BMC while Manga!Rubeus fits in better with the anime.


Aluminum Siren-never redeemed
Lead Crow-never redeemed
I'm not sure if I would count those two in the "never redeemed category," they were just Galaxia's prisoners in the end and working for her against their own free will. They weren't redeemed either, but I don't think they were ever evil to begin with.
 
May 5, 2021
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#91
Also iirc he basically encouraged her to go kill herself since the energy bomb was suppose to destroy everything within range including her.
To be fair, Petz and Calaveras did the exact same thing to Berthier (their biological sister). The entire Black Moon Clan (minus Saphir) were awful to one another. And this is because of the corruption caused by the Malefic Black Crystal. They all wore those earrings while Saphir did not. I’m not saying Rubeus was right to be a prick but it’s not entirely his fault. And in the original Japanese script, he does legitimately thank Koan for her years of service and says he appreciated it. He wasn’t completely awful but he was too arrogant for his own good. His behavior towards the Spectre Sisters in episodes 60-69 wasn’t bad. But wanting to appease Demande in his later episodes made him turn against his own subordinates. But I will definitely say Crystal/manga Rubeus is definitely a better person than his anime counterpart.
 
May 4, 2021
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www.fanfiction.net
#92
Granted, I am always down for a "Redemption Arc," so I'm slightly biased here, but one of the things that impressed me about the final plays of the Second Stage musicals is the manner in which Beryl's motivations and feelings are explored. I really, really like the way in which she is treated in this interpretation, not only because it makes her a more complex character, but it also presents her as a more human character.

The contrasting relationship between Beryl and Pluto is also fascinating as well, and I feel that little moments like these really made these plays stand out from prior more faithful adaptations of Stars.
 
May 5, 2021
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#93
He wasn't a good person or worthy of redemption, but he is still shown as a human being who would fear for death.

It was not to whitewash him, but let us know that human can do evil things like that. So we can't just think such thing would not happen to us, we need to be careful not to walk to the same path.
I agree with you. But I believe all the Black Moon Clan members deserved another chance. Sailor Moon did scream out Rubeus’ name when he got engulfed in flames. If the Sailor Senshi saw what Esmeraude coldly abandoning Rubeus, they would’ve saved him. And he’d be healed once they were safely back on Earth. That would’ve been the perfect way for him to redeem and atone for his previous crimes.
 
Apr 1, 2020
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#94
I agree with you. But I believe all the Black Moon Clan members deserved another chance. Sailor Moon did scream out Rubeus’ name when he got engulfed in flames. If the Sailor Senshi saw what Esmeraude coldly abandoning Rubeus, they would’ve saved him. And he’d be healed once they were safely back on Earth. That would’ve been the perfect way for him to redeem and atone for his previous crimes.
Rubeus was loyal to Demande and was mostly doing his job, it's just he treated the sisters like garbage, that makes him unlikeable.

It's ok to redeem him if it was written well(Berthier was hurt by her sisters yet they all got redeemed), but such a ending fits him better I think. He was also very menacing as a villain.
 
May 5, 2021
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#96
Rubeus was loyal to Demande and was mostly doing his job, it's just he treated the sisters like garbage, that makes him unlikeable.

It's ok to redeem him if it was written well(Berthier was hurt by her sisters yet they all got redeemed), but such a ending fits him better I think. He was also very menacing as a villain.
Yeah, he really valued appeasing Demande to much. That’s why he was willing to abandon the Spectre Sisters. It definitely does make many people dislike him, which is understandable. His death was just too brutal but I get they were trying to teach a lesson of karma. But he wasn’t some full blown monster incapable of emotion. He was just prideful and arrogant.
 
Apr 1, 2020
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#97
Yeah, he really valued appeasing Demande to much. That’s why he was willing to abandon the Spectre Sisters. It definitely does make many people dislike him, which is understandable. His death was just too brutal but I get they were trying to teach a lesson of karma. But he wasn’t some full blown monster incapable of emotion. He was just prideful and arrogant.
True, that's why I like the Sailor Moon anime, they treat the characters as human beings.

They were also trying to show that even a tough villain like him would show emotion in his last moment.
 
May 5, 2021
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#99
True, that's why I like the Sailor Moon anime, they treat the characters as human beings.

They were also trying to show that even a tough villain like him would show emotion in his last moment.
Yeah, I agree with that. He was still a human being at the end of the day. It's just tragic because he was much nicer in the manga. The 90s anime really did him a disservice by making him nasty at the end, along with his brutal death.
 
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