I rewatched Cosmos today... and it got worse

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Jul 31, 2012
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4,887
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Outer Space
Manga = Bad writing, pretty art, cool concepts

90's anime = Good writing (Season 1-3), Good animation (when it mattered)

The 90's anime gets weak in the SuperS and Stars seasons. The only highlights are the Nehellania redemption arc in StarS and the last few episodes imo. They should have stuck with the manga storyline at these points and enhanced it with the 90's charm. In fact, they should have gotten even darker after the S season, and just gave ChibiUsa a little mini series or OVA or something like that.

Maybe Crystal should have just been a Sailor Stars movie or something...lol
 

kasumigenx

Systema Solare
Feb 8, 2021
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The 90's anime gets weak in the SuperS and Stars seasons. The only highlights are the Nehellania redemption arc in StarS and the last few episodes imo. They should have stuck with the manga storyline at these points and enhanced it with the 90's charm. In fact, they should have gotten even darker after the S season, and just gave ChibiUsa a little mini series or OVA or something like that.

Maybe Crystal should have just been a Sailor Stars movie or something...lol
If they stuck in the manga storyline the Stars manga and Stars 90s anime would be based on the Materials Collection plot that I had mentioned before which is Takeuchi's original plan, I don't know which is better because it has never been fleshed out, but the Starlights would be alive in the end there.
 

Talentless Fool

Aurorae Lunares
Jan 23, 2023
1,903
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Manga = Bad writing, pretty art, cool concepts

90's anime = Good writing (Season 1-3), Good animation (when it mattered)

The 90's anime gets weak in the SuperS and Stars seasons. The only highlights are the Nehellania redemption arc in StarS and the last few episodes imo. They should have stuck with the manga storyline at these points and enhanced it with the 90's charm. In fact, they should have gotten even darker after the S season, and just gave ChibiUsa a little mini series or OVA or something like that.

Maybe Crystal should have just been a Sailor Stars movie or something...lol
I beg to differ.

SuperS actually develops Helios as a character, the whole secret of Pegasus and his quest for a maiden is actually given a purpose and meaning, his relationship with Chibi-Usa actually has substance and even a conclusion in the last episodes.
In the manga, it's nothing. Worst by the end, it creates a GIANT plothole with future Chibi-Usa.

The Ami episode? SuperS takes the cake with a much better written and delivered episode.
The story about her broken family isn't even completed in her own chapter!

The Rei episode? Personally I don't like either but Rei has a disastrous 'development' in that manga chapter.

The Makoto episode? Ok, when you compare it to her upgrade episode, the manga's is stronger. However, Makoto does get 2 very stronger episodes beforehand. Again SuperS wins.

The Minako episode? Again, the manga doesn't even conclude her story. Same as Makoto, her upgrade episode isn't that great but her other episodes are. SuperS again takes the cake.

The Outers? 1st episode of Stars does it in 20 mins and is much better.

After that? It's the Sailor Moon show.
Nehenelia in the 90s anime is actually a character, is given a whole backstory, is developed and given a proper conclusion.
In the manga, she just plagiarizes Maleficent and calls it a day.

So, yes the 90s anime did in fact take the main points of the manga and did a much better job.
It's problem is mainly the filler episodes and those of the Amazon Trio are for the most part entertaining albeit not moving the plot forward.
The Amazoness arc sucks but I'd argue even the best writer in the world wouldn't be able to deliver amazing stuff with 4 annoying girls in bikinis.

Stars is a MESS.
I've talked a lot about both the plot of the 90s anime and the manga and pointed out several times how the 90s anime manages to do seamlessly several things Takeuchi tried to do.

Yes, the major drawback of 90s Stars is the Starlights but at least they are in turn developed.
The SeiUsa relationship is very heartwarmingly written and delivered, all 3 of the Starlights are given personalities and group dynamic with themselves and our girls.
The fact that they are popular is embraced as it plays a major part in literally EVERY episode!

The one big downside of the anime is the way the Inners are killed but in turn they get a magnificent death scene.
Some people will get annoyed by how Pluto or Saturn don't do nothing in the 90s anime but have you read the manga?

Speaking of which, the whole trip to Galaxia's cathedral is again filler.
And once we arrive at her palace, it's plothole after plothole.

90s anime's last 10 episodes or so is 100 times much better than whatever concepts Takeuchi had.

I think it's important to highlight that having concepts or ideas doesn't make you special.
I could come up with tons of concepts, you could, anyone could.
Publishers receive hundreds of amazing conceptual ideas and full chapters from aspiring mangakas (or even established mangakas) every week.
Does that mean they all get publish? NO.

To be a good mangaka there are several other factors involved, mainly how interesting your world is and how fluently you are able to communicate that through your storyboard, how your panels flow into one another, how appealing your characters are etc...

And regardless of the medium, a writer's true worth is not on what 'amazing' concepts he can come up with but how good his writing capabilities are.
A good writer can make a lukewarm synopsis stand out with amazing characters, situations, character interactions and stage play.
A bad writer, on the other hand, wouldn't able do anything even if he was given the most amazing 'concepts' in the world.
 

Masquerade

Solaris Luna
Nov 22, 2016
2,729
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The 90s anime is at its best when they put together all the Sailor Soldiers to fight in the Neherenia arc in Stars.
It's a concept coming from the manga and also seen in the movies. Fans liked everyone fighting together and interacting as friends.
The anime flunked itself when it threw it away. They should have stuck with Naoko's vision in this one. Even if some episodes or concepts were fleshed out better than in the manga, the SuperS and Stars seasons remain PAINFUL to watch.
 

Lady Pen

Aurorae Lunares
Mar 12, 2021
1,694
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They should have stuck with Naoko's vision in this one.
Disagree. In Naoko's vision (I guess you meant Eternal, because in Cosmos Usagi is all alone) even though the girls are together, they don't have any chemistry. That's the magic everyone fell in love with, not to see 9 girls standing......there.
 

Masquerade

Solaris Luna
Nov 22, 2016
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Disagree. In Naoko's vision (I guess you meant Eternal, because in Cosmos Usagi is all alone) even though the girls are together, they don't have any chemistry. That's the magic everyone fell in love with, not to see 9 girls standing......there.
The point is taking that and giving it extra charm - not strictly following Naoko's ideas.
Like they did in Classic. Various key episodes are adaptations of manga chapters, while interesting subplots were going on.
 
Jul 31, 2012
5,589
4,887
1,665
Outer Space
I beg to differ.

SuperS actually develops Helios as a character, the whole secret of Pegasus and his quest for a maiden is actually given a purpose and meaning, his relationship with Chibi-Usa actually has substance and even a conclusion in the last episodes.
In the manga, it's nothing. Worst by the end, it creates a GIANT plothole with future Chibi-Usa.

The Ami episode? SuperS takes the cake with a much better written and delivered episode.
The story about her broken family isn't even completed in her own chapter!

The Rei episode? Personally I don't like either but Rei has a disastrous 'development' in that manga chapter.

The Makoto episode? Ok, when you compare it to her upgrade episode, the manga's is stronger. However, Makoto does get 2 very stronger episodes beforehand. Again SuperS wins.

The Minako episode? Again, the manga doesn't even conclude her story. Same as Makoto, her upgrade episode isn't that great but her other episodes are. SuperS again takes the cake.

The Outers? 1st episode of Stars does it in 20 mins and is much better.

After that? It's the Sailor Moon show.
Nehenelia in the 90s anime is actually a character, is given a whole backstory, is developed and given a proper conclusion.
In the manga, she just plagiarizes Maleficent and calls it a day.

So, yes the 90s anime did in fact take the main points of the manga and did a much better job.
It's problem is mainly the filler episodes and those of the Amazon Trio are for the most part entertaining albeit not moving the plot forward.
The Amazoness arc sucks but I'd argue even the best writer in the world wouldn't be able to deliver amazing stuff with 4 annoying girls in bikinis.

Stars is a MESS.
I've talked a lot about both the plot of the 90s anime and the manga and pointed out several times how the 90s anime manages to do seamlessly several things Takeuchi tried to do.

Yes, the major drawback of 90s Stars is the Starlights but at least they are in turn developed.
The SeiUsa relationship is very heartwarmingly written and delivered, all 3 of the Starlights are given personalities and group dynamic with themselves and our girls.
The fact that they are popular is embraced as it plays a major part in literally EVERY episode!

The one big downside of the anime is the way the Inners are killed but in turn they get a magnificent death scene.
Some people will get annoyed by how Pluto or Saturn don't do nothing in the 90s anime but have you read the manga?

Speaking of which, the whole trip to Galaxia's cathedral is again filler.
And once we arrive at her palace, it's plothole after plothole.

90s anime's last 10 episodes or so is 100 times much better than whatever concepts Takeuchi had.

I think it's important to highlight that having concepts or ideas doesn't make you special.
I could come up with tons of concepts, you could, anyone could.
Publishers receive hundreds of amazing conceptual ideas and full chapters from aspiring mangakas (or even established mangakas) every week.
Does that mean they all get publish? NO.

To be a good mangaka there are several other factors involved, mainly how interesting your world is and how fluently you are able to communicate that through your storyboard, how your panels flow into one another, how appealing your characters are etc...

And regardless of the medium, a writer's true worth is not on what 'amazing' concepts he can come up with but how good his writing capabilities are.
A good writer can make a lukewarm synopsis stand out with amazing characters, situations, character interactions and stage play.
A bad writer, on the other hand, wouldn't able do anything even if he was given the most amazing 'concepts' in the world.
I mean if I'm being perfectly honest, the anime had more time and resources to develop certain things like that with certain things, which is good. In Naoko's case, she had to juggle most things herself so it's understandable some of her storylines fell short here and there. I'm not 'defending her' really but something must have clicked right to get it greenlit.

But that's not the original point of my post. So for the main point, the issue highlighted in my post is that while some of Naoko's manga 'concepts' were opened ended (and cool), the anime should have used some 'good writing' to take Naoko's 'lukewarm' concepts in SuperS and StarS and expand on them without deviating too much from the source material, and by not doing so made the story weaker. So while they did improve some of the 'side characters', they failed to highlight other key important points of the main characters (the Inners and Outers), which in my opinion makes both seasons weaker.

Cosmos is so fast paced but I actually like how it played out much better than the StarS anime. This is why I always believe it should have been expanded into a series with a 'good writer' because there's a lot to unpack.
 
Likes: Masquerade

Talentless Fool

Aurorae Lunares
Jan 23, 2023
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I mean if I'm being perfectly honest, the anime had more time and resources to develop certain things like that with certain things, which is good. In Naoko's case, she had to juggle most things herself so it's understandable some of her storylines fell short here and there. I'm not 'defending her' really but something must have clicked right to get it greenlit.
It's the other way around.

It's the anime staff that had to depend on Takeuchi and wait for her to push out manga chapters so that they could include her stuff into the anime.
As we know from Fukano's recent tweet, even well into the development cycle, Takeuchi had yet to give material on which the anime staff could work on.
I'm pretty sure even if the directors went to her and asked her stuff, she probably didn't answer just like she did with Kon and Tomoya.

On the other hand, Takeuchi knew she had to make 1 arc per year so roughly some 12 chapters of 50 pages.
Quite the contrary in fact, if Osano had actually vetoed her 'ideas', we wouldn't have that much of a mess of a story.

Literally every mangaka in existence has to juggle stuff and meet deadlines, it comes with the job.
Being a mangaka is no easy task and yet so many, so many other mangakas are still able to tell a cohesive story while still drawing much, much more complex storyboards that any page Takeuchi has drawn on a weekly basis.

It's neither that Takeuchi 'didn't have time to develop her ideas'.
It's not like there's one character or 1 or 2 plotlines that didn't get to be developed or fleshed out - that entails LITERALLY EVERYTHING IN THE MANGA!

Take Stars for example over the whole arc, it's filler, filler and padding.
Sailor Senshi's deaths, Animamates - all filler and that's why when it comes to the actual stuff that needs development and explanation, it comes short because Takeuchi has already wasted MOST of her pages on filler content.
Instead of challenging herself and coming out of her comfort zone and changing her writing style, she keeps recycling the same schema and throws random stuff at your face that needs your 'imagination' to work.

It's time to stop with this silly argument that Takeuchi was on a time crunch or didn't have time to development her 'ideas'.
If that was so, then every manga in existence would be as bad as Sailor Moon.

But that's not the original point of my post. So for the main point, the issue highlighted in my post is that while some of Naoko's manga 'concepts' were opened ended (and cool), the anime should have used some 'good writing' to take Naoko's 'lukewarm' concepts in SuperS and StarS and expand on them without deviating too much from the source material, and by not doing so made the story weaker.
Again what concepts when the first half of these arcs are filler and the concepts introduced later on are nonsensical?

Take Dream for example.

First chapter sets Chibi-Usa and Helios as the main focus.
Next 4 chapters are on the Inners - they get their upgrade and we still don't know nothing about Helios, why he's taken the form of a Pegasus, who is Zirconia, why does she want 'Dream Power', what are lemures, what does Nehenelia want.

5 chapters in, 5 months in and still no sustainable material. What is the anime staff supposed to do?

So while they did improve some of the 'side characters', they failed to highlight other key important points of the main characters (the Inners and Outers), which in my opinion makes both seasons weaker.
The Inners and Outers are not even side characters in these arcs but color-swapped place-holders.

Unless the anime staff started completely changing the characters and taking them into completely new directions, what could they do more?
These characters already had sustainable development over the first 3 seasons and even during SuperS.
And I'm sure if the anime staff did deviate from her characters, Takeuchi would again complain about it on the preface of her manga.

There's no win.
 

kasumigenx

Systema Solare
Feb 8, 2021
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Disagree. In Naoko's vision (I guess you meant Eternal, because in Cosmos Usagi is all alone) even though the girls are together, they don't have any chemistry. That's the magic everyone fell in love with, not to see 9 girls standing......there.
The Dream Arc was already adapted into Super S and Neherenia arc...
 

Al Evans

Luna Crescens
Jul 3, 2023
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So, everyone in the future is dead except Sailor Cosmos, where Sailor Chaos will always return no matter how many times it is defeated? And she won't revive them coz Sailor Chaos will just kill them again? Meaning it's practically the same as the cycle of Sin in FFX but far worse and with no chance of permanently ending without destroying the universe? And thus Sailor Cosmos, future self of Usagi/Sailor Moon/Neo Queen Serenity, is forever denied her happy ending with Mamoru/Tuxedo Mask/Endymion and her friends, having to live eternity without them?
I don't think that is the idea.

The ending lends itself to interpretation, especially the Manga version where we are uncertain if Cosmos has anything to do with Crystal Tokyo or not.

For starters, in the Black Moon Arc we are told that if someone time travels they cannot be in the same place and time as their counterpart. usagi begins disappearing because she is spending too much time in too close a proximity to Neo-Queen Serenity. And yet, Sailor Cosmos for days is literally sleeping in the same bed as Usagi and nothing happens to either of them. Whilst we see Crystal Tokyo disappearing as a direct result of what Galaxia is doing in the 20th century, nothing happens to Sailor Cosmos who is from farther into the future. You could chalk this up to Sailor Cosmos, as the most powerful Senshi, simply being an exception to all the rules, or you could argue that she is in fact not from the same timeline in the first place. Whilst Usagi and NQS were from THE same timeline in the Black moon Arc, Sailor Cosmos may well be from a parallel timelines in other words.

But, for the sake of argument, lets say that is not the case, that Cosmos is from THE same timeline.

I don't think this denies Usagi her happy ending. She had her happy ending. She enjoyed it. But all things must come to an end. Creation and destruction. Life and death. There is a natural order and balance that must remain in play. You could even argue that Sailor Chaos was the price that had to be paid for having thousands of years of peace in Crystal Tokyo in the first place.

Based upon the Cosmos movie, I interpreted the idea that history will repeat itself. Sailor Chaos is to the future what Metalia was to the past. She destroys the old order and so Sailor Cosmos must do as her mother Queen Serenity did before her and let go of the world and life she knew so that the cycle may begin again. That is why her dialogue make allusions to her being a coward, to how she needs the courage to throw it all away and how nothing can be the same even if they beat Sailor Chaos. When Metalia wrecked the Silver Millennium Queen Serenity had to accept that nothing was ever going to be the same either, that the life she knew was forever gone, her kingdom was never going to come back. Sure, Crystal Tokyo was the natural successor to the Silver Millennium, but it wasn't the same thing. I think Sailor Cosmos faces the same choice and desired to not let the cycle begin anew but rather was desperately clinging to the life she had known. She wanted to put things back the way they had been when that was no longer possible. So, she had to have the courage to throw it all away and let the cycle begin again.

One could go farther and say this is the way of all life. We will all die. Our loved ones will eventually leave us or we will leave them, one way or another. But that doesn't mean it isn't worth embracing life and going on the journey, despite the inevitable pain and suffering we will deal with. Sailor Cosmos's plan to end suffering was ironically more terrible than what Sailor Chaos was doing. She wanted a peace that would be free of suffering but would essentially euphenise the galaxy. Usagi's POV was that the pain and suffering was part of life, but so was love and happiness too, the latter justifying the former and in turn making the right choice to be that life would continue onwards.

I think it is no accident this all happens a chapter before Usagi gets married. When you get married you are signing up for some amount of pain and suffering. On the most basic level, odds are one of you will die first and the years you spent together will make that hurt all the more than if you had remained alone. But the upsides of such a relationship make it worth it, children being the most obvious example of that; again, no accident that Usagi is pregnant in the final chapter.

Finally, it isn't an absolute certainty that Sailor Chaos is unbeatable. In the manga, unlike the film, the dialogue says something to the effect of Sailor Chaos being unbeatable if they use the tactics they had used before. In other words, the methods by which usagi has defeated metalia, Pharaoh 90, even Chaos itself, were ineffective. But that then opens the possibility that other tactics might work.

But even if we run by the movie where that line is omitted, Sailor Cosmos is going back to resume her fight, so on some level she must believe there is hope. And that is part and parcel of the Stars arc as a whole. The situation goes from bad to worse, the glimmer of hope being that with the Sailor Crystals Usagi can resurrect her friends...until Galaxia hurls the Crystals into the Galaxy Cauldron. That is the point at which there is ZERO hope. By all the rules that have been laid out to us Usagi's friends are GONE. In the best case scenario they will be reincarnated but the friends she has known as she has known them are gone forever. That is, until Usagi, with no rationale reason to think otherwise, decides to try. Despite having no reason to think it will work, she jumps into the Cauldron and successfully defeats Chaos, saves her friends AND restores Crystal Tokyo. This is probably the 'invincible power' Sailor Cosmos was referencing in the last chapter.

In my opinion, it is this I think that inspires Sailor Cosmos. She has no idea how or if she can defeat Sailor Chaos. She believed she has no hope of beating her. But she now has renewed courage to try. And, as Guardian Cosmos says, in the Galaxy Cauldron all things are possible. Basically her character arc is that of an older person who through age and suffering has lost touch with who she used to be when she was younger, until her younger self literally show her who she was supposed to be.

Whilst the ending is open to interpretation for sure, I think it is fair to argue that somehow Sailor Cosmos defeats Sailor Chaos and either
a) restores everything as it was, or
b) begins the galaxy's life cycle again, so she and Mamoru will be reborn again, and fall in love again

We don't know how she is going to do it, but equally no one knew how Usagi was going to defeat Chaos and save everyone in the final chapters either, and yet she did.
 

Al Evans

Luna Crescens
Jul 3, 2023
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Manga = Bad writing, pretty art, cool concepts

90's anime = Good writing (Season 1-3), Good animation (when it mattered)

The 90's anime gets weak in the SuperS and Stars seasons. The only highlights are the Nehellania redemption arc in StarS and the last few episodes imo. They should have stuck with the manga storyline at these points and enhanced it with the 90's charm. In fact, they should have gotten even darker after the S season, and just gave ChibiUsa a little mini series or OVA or something like that.

Maybe Crystal should have just been a Sailor Stars movie or something...lol
Nah. The stars season is top tier.
 

Sapphire231

Luna Crescens
Jun 9, 2023
226
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I don't think that is the idea.

The ending lends itself to interpretation, especially the Manga version where we are uncertain if Cosmos has anything to do with Crystal Tokyo or not.

For starters, in the Black Moon Arc we are told that if someone time travels they cannot be in the same place and time as their counterpart. usagi begins disappearing because she is spending too much time in too close a proximity to Neo-Queen Serenity. And yet, Sailor Cosmos for days is literally sleeping in the same bed as Usagi and nothing happens to either of them. Whilst we see Crystal Tokyo disappearing as a direct result of what Galaxia is doing in the 20th century, nothing happens to Sailor Cosmos who is from farther into the future. You could chalk this up to Sailor Cosmos, as the most powerful Senshi, simply being an exception to all the rules, or you could argue that she is in fact not from the same timeline in the first place. Whilst Usagi and NQS were from THE same timeline in the Black moon Arc, Sailor Cosmos may well be from a parallel timelines in other words.

But, for the sake of argument, lets say that is not the case, that Cosmos is from THE same timeline.

I don't think this denies Usagi her happy ending. She had her happy ending. She enjoyed it. But all things must come to an end. Creation and destruction. Life and death. There is a natural order and balance that must remain in play. You could even argue that Sailor Chaos was the price that had to be paid for having thousands of years of peace in Crystal Tokyo in the first place.

Based upon the Cosmos movie, I interpreted the idea that history will repeat itself. Sailor Chaos is to the future what Metalia was to the past. She destroys the old order and so Sailor Cosmos must do as her mother Queen Serenity did before her and let go of the world and life she knew so that the cycle may begin again. That is why her dialogue make allusions to her being a coward, to how she needs the courage to throw it all away and how nothing can be the same even if they beat Sailor Chaos. When Metalia wrecked the Silver Millennium Queen Serenity had to accept that nothing was ever going to be the same either, that the life she knew was forever gone, her kingdom was never going to come back. Sure, Crystal Tokyo was the natural successor to the Silver Millennium, but it wasn't the same thing. I think Sailor Cosmos faces the same choice and desired to not let the cycle begin anew but rather was desperately clinging to the life she had known. She wanted to put things back the way they had been when that was no longer possible. So, she had to have the courage to throw it all away and let the cycle begin again.

One could go farther and say this is the way of all life. We will all die. Our loved ones will eventually leave us or we will leave them, one way or another. But that doesn't mean it isn't worth embracing life and going on the journey, despite the inevitable pain and suffering we will deal with. Sailor Cosmos's plan to end suffering was ironically more terrible than what Sailor Chaos was doing. She wanted a peace that would be free of suffering but would essentially euphenise the galaxy. Usagi's POV was that the pain and suffering was part of life, but so was love and happiness too, the latter justifying the former and in turn making the right choice to be that life would continue onwards.

I think it is no accident this all happens a chapter before Usagi gets married. When you get married you are signing up for some amount of pain and suffering. On the most basic level, odds are one of you will die first and the years you spent together will make that hurt all the more than if you had remained alone. But the upsides of such a relationship make it worth it, children being the most obvious example of that; again, no accident that Usagi is pregnant in the final chapter.

Finally, it isn't an absolute certainty that Sailor Chaos is unbeatable. In the manga, unlike the film, the dialogue says something to the effect of Sailor Chaos being unbeatable if they use the tactics they had used before. In other words, the methods by which usagi has defeated metalia, Pharaoh 90, even Chaos itself, were ineffective. But that then opens the possibility that other tactics might work.

But even if we run by the movie where that line is omitted, Sailor Cosmos is going back to resume her fight, so on some level she must believe there is hope. And that is part and parcel of the Stars arc as a whole. The situation goes from bad to worse, the glimmer of hope being that with the Sailor Crystals Usagi can resurrect her friends...until Galaxia hurls the Crystals into the Galaxy Cauldron. That is the point at which there is ZERO hope. By all the rules that have been laid out to us Usagi's friends are GONE. In the best case scenario they will be reincarnated but the friends she has known as she has known them are gone forever. That is, until Usagi, with no rationale reason to think otherwise, decides to try. Despite having no reason to think it will work, she jumps into the Cauldron and successfully defeats Chaos, saves her friends AND restores Crystal Tokyo. This is probably the 'invincible power' Sailor Cosmos was referencing in the last chapter.

In my opinion, it is this I think that inspires Sailor Cosmos. She has no idea how or if she can defeat Sailor Chaos. She believed she has no hope of beating her. But she now has renewed courage to try. And, as Guardian Cosmos says, in the Galaxy Cauldron all things are possible. Basically her character arc is that of an older person who through age and suffering has lost touch with who she used to be when she was younger, until her younger self literally show her who she was supposed to be.

Whilst the ending is open to interpretation for sure, I think it is fair to argue that somehow Sailor Cosmos defeats Sailor Chaos and either
a) restores everything as it was, or
b) begins the galaxy's life cycle again, so she and Mamoru will be reborn again, and fall in love again

We don't know how she is going to do it, but equally no one knew how Usagi was going to defeat Chaos and save everyone in the final chapters either, and yet she did.

Can't be too close to past self
: Well there's a plot hole already. She's not even being consistent. (And Sailor Cosmos references having been at this spot as Sailor Moon before)

We all will die: But Sailor Cosmos won't. She'll live forever, alone. Unless she pulls an Optimus Primal destroying herself and Sailor Chaos when next she returns.

Absolute certainty that Sailor Chaos is unbeatable: She did defeat her but only after a difficult battle resulting in the death and destruction of everyone and everything else, and Sailor Chaos will reincarnate/revive like she did when Sailor Moon destroyed her inside the Cauldron.

History repeating itself from when Metalia destroyed Silver Millennium: That could be. So she and everyone else will be reborn in the new world? And again have to defend it from Chaos no doubt but maybe will have an easier time in the new world with new powerups and such?
 

Al Evans

Luna Crescens
Jul 3, 2023
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I think it's fair to say that Sailor Stars (90s) did a solid job wrapping up Usagi's character arc as the final season (and I really enjoyed reading your analysis on it, @Al Evans!). Even the subtle callbacks to the Dark Kingdom finale do a great job of highlighting Usagi's growth throughout the '90s anime—setting SuperS aside

However, for fans like me who feel like Sailor Stars doesn’t quite land as a “final season,” a lot of it comes down to how low-stakes much of the season feels. The Monster of the Day formula was inevitable, but the issue isn’t the formula itself—it’s the way it was executed, particularly in relation to the season’s MacGuffin.

The cycle of a star seed going blank, turning into a Phage, and then Eternal Sailor Moon healing them works on a thematic level, especially because it ties into her eventual healing of Galaxia in the finale. But the problem is, it comes at the cost of any real tension. Compare that to Sailor Moon S. In hindsight, it’s easy to point out that the introduction of Pure Heart Crystals marked the start of the anime leaning more heavily into a formula. I’d even argue that the first two seasons, with their focus on energy collection, had more variety in their plotlines. But when I first watched S, the Pure Heart Crystal concept felt fresh. The tension stemmed from the fact that extracting a Pure Heart Crystal visibly put people in danger—characters literally turned pale.

Even though the Daimons introduced some goofier monster designs, they still felt like they posed some kind of threat. Most of them were responsible for extracting Pure Heart Crystals, and the show didn’t shy away from the fact that this could easily result in someone’s death. Eudial’s Daimons were an exception to the formula, but Eudial herself was one of the most memorable villains in Sailor Moon. The stakes felt high, and the potential for real harm was always hanging over the characters. Contrast that with the earlier seasons, where the focus on collecting energy was less dire. While energy-draining sometimes implied the risk of death, more often than not, the characters just fainted after their energy was stolen.

In Sailor Stars, that kind of tension is completely missing the moment a human turns into a Phage after their star seed is extracted. The only real sense of danger comes when the Sailor Starlights threaten to kill the Phage and its logical implication... But even that felt so forced, especially after the first episode when they realize Eternal Sailor Moon can easily heal the Phages. It’s clear they were trying to give the Starlights the same morally ambiguous vibe as the Outers, but it doesn’t quite work. The Outers’ moral ambiguity in S made sense because when a Pure Heart Crystal became a Talisman, it meant the person would die. The Starlights, on the other hand, are more focused on their princess, which doesn’t translate well into the episodic structure of Stars.

This brings up the biggest issue with Sailor Stars: the overuse of the Starlights. In S, Haruka and Michiru were nowhere near shoved down our throats. When one of the Inners had a focus episode, the Outers mostly took a back seat, and when they were involved, they were actually likable (at least as civilians). Even when Haruka and Michiru acted like jerks toward Usagi and the others, it was directly tied to the overarching plot of S. Their coldness and morally gray actions served to highlight the larger conflict between their mission and the Inners' more optimistic approach. S did a great job connecting multiple plot threads, like Rei’s visions of destruction, the looming threat of the Outers killing innocent people to achieve their goals, and the tension surrounding Hotaru’s identities as Sailor Saturn and Mistress 9—all of which built up to an incredible climax.

In Stars, by comparison, things only really pick up in the final stretch of episodes, and even then, it feels disconnected from the rest of the season because:
A) Sailor Galaxia never intended for her underlings to be an actual threat, and at any point, she could have just ripped everyone’s star seeds from their bodies—just like in the manga.
B) Many of the Starlights b-plots revolved heavily around them being idols and Seiya's one-way romance with Usagi... In fact, the Starlights' search for their princess barely factors into the plot at all which is funny because Kakyuu's death is what essentially triggers the last couple of episodes.

For all its flaws (and there are many), the manga—and Cosmos as its faithful adaptation—never had trouble selling the idea that this was the highest-stakes battle of all, even if the storytelling wasn’t always as coherent as the original anime. Stars just lacked that same level of consistent tension and emotional weight throughout most of the season for me.
I am afraid I disagree on various points.

Let's talk about the low stakes situation. Yes, in S there were major stakes at play since if the Pure Heart Crystals were not returned, the owner would die. However, I'd argue that the stakes were equally high and in fact more potent in both Stars and its proto-type arc, the Rainbow Crystals arc. This is because:

a) the innocent victims were themselves the villains, so our heroes had to make a choice about whether (and to what extent) they hurt the villain as it would mean hurting an innocent life

b) The Starlights' POV early on was very much that killing the was only option, which is MORE high stakes than the Outers being willing to sacrifice innocent lives for a greater good, after all they always returned the Pure Heart Crystals once they had checked them over. Once the Outers chcecked over a Crystal they either left or helped beat the villain. The Starlights by contrast were reluctanly out for blood and took awhile to be convinced that Sailor Moon's power meant there was an alternative. This in turn played into their own arcs of believing in Usagi, which paid off when they 'adopted' her as their protectee after Kakuyuu died. As for it being forced after their debut episode, I do not agree with this because they simply do not trust Sailor Moon yet. Once can be a fluke and they don't know much about her. Being foreign to Earth and embroiled in this Sailor War, they are inevitably going to be wary of the other Senshi and keep to themselves. Moreover, there were instances in the early Stars episodes where Usagi was not on the scene when they were fighting the Phages, so the Starlights would have had no option except to kill them. It wasn't as if they consistently were gunning for the kill shot throughout the season. There came a point where they had grown to know better and trust Sailor moon would heal them up. So I don't really see how this was forced.*

c) Often, the Senshi would have some kind of fondness for the victim of the day, for example Rei being cousins with the Phage in the lake episode, or Ami respecting Sailor Teacher. So, much like the Rainbow Crystals arc, the stakes were not simply the lives of whatever the victim of the day was, but a personal stake for characters we ourselves are invested in. It is more engaging drama when the hero is fighting not simply to save someone because it is the morally right thing to do, or even because an innocent person we are familiar ith might die, but because it matters to them personally. Consider, would the second Act low point in the Dark Knight have hit as hard if Batman had failed to save a random woman rather than him failing to save the woman he was in love with?

So, I'd argue the execution in this arc is at least of equally high stakes as S and moreover has a stronger payoff as it naturally builds up the Starlights' relationships with Usagi, thematically builds up Usagi as a Healer Goddess and also lent itself to strong character exploration as the villain and victim were the same character, an by extension the Senshi fighting them tested them more than a Daimon stealing hearts could.

I'd agree that by Stars we were firmly in formula territory, but it is hardly fair to place that on Stars when that had been something solidified by S. That was simply the standard operating procedure for the show, but the specific variation Stars went to hadn't been done since season 1 and it was the most dramatic.

I agree that the Daimons were more threatening than the Phage's, but I don't think more threatening = better, nor more fitting for a finale. To me, the fact that the villains were warped Senshi not only leant themselves to interesting designs but raised the stakes unto themselves because, now the finale villains are evil Senshi. There mere existence signified that something terrible was happening for Senshi to go bad and thereby built up the main villains. I'd also add that thematically this was appropriate because, just as the Phages were people who had their Star Seeds removed and became warped versions of themselves, the same was true of Galaxia, at least in a sense. This then justifies their goofiness. They are goofy but Galaxia, who is in a not dissimilar boat to them, is decidedly not. This is illustrated when Usagi does her finishing move on her and it doesn't work.

As for Eudial, yes she is great, very memorable indeed. I'd argue the same of Aluminum Siren and Lead Crow. Their double act was funny and in its own way sweet, whether you read them as friends, friendly rivals, or lovers. Now, I would say, as much as I love them, Mimet and Kaolinite are also more memorable than the other Animamates were. But I don't think that is a slant against Stars or undermines it as the grand finale season. For starters, not every single aspect of the grand finale needs to be peak to be worthy of being the finale. More poignantly, as memorable as the S villains may have been they frankly pale in comparison to the Shitennou and the Black Moon Clan. This isn't even accounting for how Nehalennia and Galaxia are extremely memorable and gripping villains, but I think its fair to say at the moment we are not talking about the Big Bads but the sub-bosses.

Yes, the Starlights are more focussed upon their Princess. And on paper this means it is harder to make that work episodically vs the 2 Senshi teams in a sense being after the same thing. But on paper is one thing and in execution is another. The reality is the Starlights method for finding their Princess was to become successful celebrities. Therefore they were constantly pursuing their goal in the background of the show and on an episodic basis this meant the plots could revolve around the main cast interacting with them both as characters unto themselves but also in the context of their celebrity status. This worked wonders with Minako who also wanted to be a celebrity, but also makoto's cooking skills getting to shine on TV, on Luna getting to see the real Yaten, the scandal of the Three Lights staying at Usagi's house, their interacting with Michiru at the concert and to an extent the lake episode. It was a dynamic we hadn't seen before, with celebrity characters in the show not getting the same degree of exploration. Moreover, their arc across the season was gradually getting them to the point where they viewed Usagi in the same light as their own princess, ultimately stepping up to protect her when Usagi's own protectors had died, each party fulfilling a need the other had. So, in terms of plot generation, perhaps it was not as elegant as S (though it worked fine, the reduced episode count perhaps helping with this) but in terms of character exploration it delivered strong material.

I honestly cannot agree at all when it comes to the use of the Starlights vs the Outers. I was utterly frustrated that S over prioritised the Outers over the Inners. It really felt like the Inners were being sidelined for them. Whilst there are Inner Senshi focus episodes wherein the Outers took a backseat, I'd argue that's kind of worse than weaving the two groups together within the context of the plot. Imo, Stars did this more consistently successfully than S did, although in fairness there was a smaller episode count to begin with. The Sailor teacher episode weaves the Ami and Taiki's roles together well. The episode where Minako tries to be an idol organically integrates both Yaten and Tin-Nyanko. The cooking show episode organically integrates Makoto and Taiki. The concert episode organically weaves Haruka and Michiru in with the Starlights. Even Luna got a strong focus episode involving Yaten, Luna's best focus story since the S movie frankly. Rei is something of an exception here. She gets 1 focus episode (the lake episode) that a rewrite could have easily omitted the Starlights from, but it wasn't as if their inclusion hurt the episode either. She is however used organically to facilitate a Seiya focus story in the dance teacher episode. However, I think this is excused somewhat when one considers that Rei got 2 impactful scenes in the season. The first being her fortuneteller role for Usagi and Seiya and the latter being her confronting Usagi about Mamoru's absence. Another example of Stars paying tribute to the roots of the series wherein Rei was clearly Usagi's closest friend in season 1. (Yes, Setsuna and Hotaru got sort shrift, but that is their lot in this franchise it seems. Esp Setsuna. Girl got the most memorable Image Song from the Musicals and that's it.) Additionally, the Inners and Outers got a lot of love in the first 6 episodes of the season. Makoto didn't get a full on focus episode per se, but she also got the ICONIC scene where she went 1 v1 with Nehalennia. It was a scene I inevitably revisited upon learning of her VA's passing. Rest in Power Emi.

I guess to me, if you are going to have a season (with a more limited episode count no less) that expands the scope of the world by saying there are in fact Sailor Senshi beyond the Solar System then the best thing to do is OPTIMISE that set up and USE those other Senshi.

"Their coldness and morally gray actions served to highlight the larger conflict between their mission and the Inners' more optimistic approach."

Please see below as I discussed this point a lot. Basically, the Outer Senshi's approach and the ideological conflict in S was forced and didn't make sense. I personally find that frustrating, but I also am not going to write off the season because of that since, let us be honest, 90% of Sailor Moon doesn't make sense and never did. Nor did its major source of inspiration, Super Sentai, for the record. In my eyes (as a Sentai fan who then became a fan of SM) that is possibly a feature, not a bug.

"S did a great job connecting multiple plot threads, like Rei’s visions of destruction, the looming threat of the Outers killing innocent people to achieve their goals, and the tension surrounding Hotaru’s identities as Sailor Saturn and Mistress 9—all of which built up to an incredible climax."

I won't deny that (although, again, I find it forced and unbelievble for the Outers to have that POV in the first place, hence I prefer the Manga's version where they are far more reasonable). But I don't see why this makes Stars' finale bad, let alone unworthy as the Grand Finale to the show.

For starters, I'd argue Stars does a decent job of having the narrative threads converge together (although not as effective as S). But I also don't think the criteria for whether a finale is successful or not = did the plot threads across the season converge or not. In season 1, Ami's character arc paid off several episodes prior to the finale, for example. The Shitennou's storyline was wrapped up before then as well. The season 1 finale pays off plot points for sure, but it isn't weaving a tapestry like S was. But did that make mean it was dramatically ineffective? No. Does that mean it was not, if we are honest, THE most iconic finale of the whole show? No.

The Stars finale is much the same, and not just because it is actively bringing things full circle by recreating some elements of the Season 1 finale (the Senshi dead, fighting evil versions of friends, Princess Serenity vs the Big Bad who has transformed into her upgraded form). It pays off the character arcs of the Starlights and of their relationship with Usagi by having them fulfill the void Galaxia has created in them both. Usagi is bereft of her protectors. The Starlights are bereft of their Princess.

But, more than this, the Stars finale utterly succeeds because it places the emphasis squarely on Usagi herself, something that in truth NONE of the Finales since Season 1 had done. R (a great finale in its own right) evolves around the family, Usagi, Mamoru and Chibi-Usa. S is Usagi and Hotaru, all in service of resolving an ideological schism between the Inners and Outers. SuperS was Chibi-Usa stealing the spotlight in the penultimate episode and Usagi then showing fortitude to save her, the villain meanwhile (who in truth was really Chibi-Usa's adversary) had already been beaten. Pegasus ultimately saves them both.

In Stars and Season 1 though USAGI saves the day. In season 1 she steps up and embraces her role as Princess, becoming the vanquisher of the Dark Kingdom like her Mother before her (very Star Wars, no?). In Stars she engages in a natural evolution of this. She doesn't simply defeat or destroy the villain, she saves them, and in doing so saves not just the Earth but the whole galaxy. She becomes the Healer Goddess she always was deep down but at the absolute pinnacle of her powers, the person who all too believably could become Neo-Queen Serenity tomorrow. Which, in essence ties into Season 1 as well. She has even more, become like her Mother, except she has surpassed her Mother too, saving the villains, fixing everything, rather than simply offering the chance to start over.** And she does this whilst confronting the most powerful villain in the Galaxy possessing the most powerful Senshi ever.

In the same way Usagi is literally stripped down, the Stars finale strips the story down to its essence. Usagi the Sailor Senshi, whose true power is love/empathy. She doesn't do this with assistance. She doesn't do this by adopting a new more powerful form, indeed she loses all exterior trappings. This is our girl saving the villain from themselves, saving her friends for herself, saving everyone across the galaxy, and proving definitively that she is THE greatest Sailor Senshi of all. And all of it topped off with a reaffirmation of the Miracle Romance, Usagi's self-descriptor monologue and Moonlight Densetsu; all 3 things that started it all.

S does a great job of weaving together the threads for that season. Stars wove together the fundamental threads that ran from episode 1 until the very end.

And considering, this was all after 2 seasons that frankly, de-emphasised the main character (the Outers are very prominent in the first half of S, Chibi-Usa and Hotaru much moreso in the second half, and Chibi-Usa is THE lead in SuperS), I'd say that is a rousing touchdown. This show was about Usagi fundamentally and the Stars finale is the greatest demonstration of why she rocks!

"In Stars, by comparison, things only really pick up in the final stretch of episodes, and even then, it feels disconnected from the rest of the season because:
A) Sailor Galaxia never intended for her underlings to be an actual threat, and at any point, she could have just ripped everyone’s star seeds from their bodies—just like in the manga.
B) Many of the Starlights b-plots revolved heavily around them being idols and Seiya's one-way romance with Usagi... In fact, the Starlights' search for their princess barely factors into the plot at all which is funny because Kakyuu's death is what essentially triggers the last couple of episodes."

I couldn't disagree more. Basically everything from the Plane episode where Aluminum Siren dies onwards is unmissable. It is all chain linking towards the grand climax. The core of the narrative is Usagi's development, her relationship with Seiya and the relationship between the two Senshi teams as a whole, not an ideological debate like in S. The relationship threads were done well and paid off. For me, that's more relevant because I'm in this for the characters first and foremost.

I will agree that Galaxia's plan is rather questionable...but...I think this is a dangerous criticism to level against Stars considering 90% of everyone's plans in this show from day one are illogical. This includes in S. Why didn't Haruka and Michiru entertain the idea they might possess the Talismans? Was their plan honestly to just wait for a Daimon to steal a heart and then steal it from the Daimon? That's extremely risky. Why not tell the Inners the whole truth from the outset, or at least enough of the truth to get their help but not tell them about the leangths they were willing to go. In R, the Black Moon Clan never used their time travel to its full effect. Why take over the future when you can simply go back to a more vulnerable point in time and tae over from there? Then you've got the endless wacky schemes of the Shitennou to discover Sailor Moon's secret identity, many of which work purely due to toon logic. And of course, the Dead Moon Circus purposefully didn't tell the Trio that Pegasus would be in a very particular type of Dream Mirror and their seduction schemes never served a point in the first place. Usagi's plan to get recruited by the Dark Kingdom in season 1, whilst demonstrating her being proactive which was nice, was inevitably doomed to fail. King Endymion's plan to save the future via giving Mamoru and Usagi bad dreams requires a lot of reflection to make sense and at face value, it just doesn't.

And, of course, the classic...The Sailor Team are looking for the MOON Princess and at no point consider that maybe Sailor MOON, who's real name means 'Rabbit of the MOON' might be the MOON Princess?

Again, this is very much Super Sentai levels of illogical. For example, in Power Rangers (not Sentai, but close enough) Rita Repulsa knows who the Power Rangers are, where they live, but she doesn't attack them in their sleep or anything like that. In Miraculous Ladybug, a show heavily inspired by Sailor Moon, the main villain can create super villains with essentially any powers he wants, but he always fails. He can even recreate them. He could very easily just try the same scheme again, but account for what went wrong the first time, or give a villain powers that could just turn back time or something. He never does.

That all being said, IIRC I don't think Galaxia can rip out the Star Seeds of Sailor Senshi on a whim. She needs to do that in person. So from her POV, she harvests everyone's Star Seeds and now she is scouring a hole planet for like 10 people. Bear in mind, the Starlights and Kakuyuu fled their own planet so for all she knows, going in that hard, that fast is going to make her job harder. She only does it in the finale because she has essentially egged them (especially the Starlights) into fighting her. She knows they want the showdown, so they are going to come to her and fight on her home turf. Prior to that, having her Animamates target people they think might hold True Star Seeds, whilst slower, is likely more effective as it doesn't spook the Senshi into running, especially since none of them (not even the Starlights) know that only Sailor Senshi can have True Star Seeds. In fact, and maybe I am wrong about this, I'm not even sure galaxia knows for certain that only Senshi can have true Star Seeds, given how Tuxedo Mask is NOT a Sailor Senshi. But, I can accept it doesn't make sense...at which point it would be consistent with most of the show.

"B) Many of the Starlights b-plots revolved heavily around them being idols and Seiya's one-way romance with Usagi... In fact, the Starlights' search for their princess barely factors into the plot at all which is funny because Kakyuu's death is what essentially triggers the last couple of episodes."

For starters, I don't think the romance was strictly one way. Usagi's heart belongs to Mamoru, but she did have feelings for Seiya. That romance was compelling soap opera drama for me. The latter factors into the finale to some degree (when the Starlights adopt Usagi), but even if you argue it doesn't, again, lots of plot threads in various seasons resolved before the finale. Ami's relationship with Ryo, Kunzite's fate, Usagi and Mamoru's breakup (although that eventually became relevant in the finale I admit), the mystery of who Chibi-Usa was, etc. I'd however argue that the SeiUsa drama in a sense reinforced the Miracle Romance via its absence and the temptation presented by Seiya to Usagi. The heartbreak of us viewers knowing Mamoru is dead but Usagi not knowing, waiting for that time bomb to go off, which it did in the finale. Much like the break up arc, whilst the specific story resolved before the finale, the ramifications of it having happened still factored into the finale.

As for their searching for their Princess, they are continuously fuelling their search by being celebrities. That is their entire plan. Not only are there a few episode where this is central to the narrative (Taiki's crisis of faith being an example), but more poignantly the point is the Starlights more and more are growing to view Usagi in a similar light to their Princess, which does pay off in the climax. The plot threads are actually reflecting one another. Sans mamoru, Usagi is growing closer to Seiya. Sans their Princess, the Starlights are starting to see Sailor Moon in the same light, with Seiya being the more obvious example of this. I'd also add that by having their celebrity status fuel their search for the Princess, it basically means you can do fun scenarios utilising their celebrity status without having to focus upon that search in this or that filler episode you are writing. Want to have a fun summer lake episode. Or a sleepover? Or a video game contest? or a concert? or an episode about antiques? Your options are open, its all on the table. Therefore, Sailor Stars could engage in the fun slice of life sitcom-esque filler episodes that were in truth Sailor Moon's bread and butter. Across the 200 episodes, most of the show is similar to the sitcom Friends in that an episode could be described as 'The One with/where'. The One with the skiing. The One where Ami goes to Germany. The One where the girls learn about lesbians. The One where everyone wants to know who Chibi-Usa is dating. The Sailor Stars filler episodes imo where a triumphant return to form in this regard, the sleepover episode being my personal favourite of the ep of the entire show, and imo the funniest too.

"For all its flaws (and there are many), the manga—and Cosmos as its faithful adaptation—never had trouble selling the idea that this was the highest-stakes battle of all, even if the storytelling wasn’t always as coherent as the original anime. Stars just lacked that same level of consistent tension and emotional weight throughout most of the season for me."

"Let's compare the anime to the anime for a minute. You spoke a lot about S, but if S had a consistent level of underlying tension it was only because of the prophecy in the literal first minutes of the first episode of the season. Which was effective, but in my view a tiny bit of a cheat as it gives you as a writer licence to do any number of goofy filler episodes so long as every few episodes you do a flashback to the prophecy. Like if you showed someone random S episodes for the very first time and they never mention the prophecy, they aren't going to feel that tension. By the time you get to the climax episodes of Stars though, that tension is absolutely there. Maybe the S finale is more tense, but only because there is a ticking clock involved too. With the Stars finale you lack the ticking clock, but instead you have a situation where everyone is either down for the count or dead. It is just Usagi and the most powerful villain of all fighting 1v1 for the fate of the whole galaxy. Galaxia has functionally already won, it isn't a case of if Usagi or anyone else can do anything in time they can win. It is absolutely over. The only glimmer of hope is ChibiChibi...and then she fails too. And prior to her, everyone else had pulled out all the stops against Galaxia and she'd walked through them. There is no ticking clock, but that doesn't mean it wasn't effective drama, nor worthy of being the Grand Finale. Because at face value there was NO way Galaxia could be overpowered. Which is why the finale was so perfect. Usagi defeated every other villain before Galaxia by overpowering them. But in the case of Galaxia, she won by saving her. It was a solution in plain sight. "

Finally, I don't think comparing the manga and the anime on this front is fair. This is because EVERY arc in the anime is lacking in tension compared to its Manga counterpart, including S. This is because the Manga doesn't have filler epiodes to space events out. It is over all less comedic to diffuse tension. And because it has a shorter we get to the point much faster. In the latest English translation of the Manga each arc has 2 volumes dedicated to it and if you notice, the second of those volumes (volume 2, volume 4, volume 6, volume 8 and volume 10) are a pretty ruthless in how each chapter is distinctly part of the finale for that arc, not simply building towards the finale. Each chapter cliffhangers into the next until we hit the final showdown with the Big Bad.

The Stars arc more specifically is tension riddled because a character dies in almost every chapter of the thing. This is because the Stars arc was essentially a deconstruction of both Sailor Moon and arguably the magical girl genre as a whole. The Stars anime arc however wasn't doing that, it was instead rebuilding the show after the blunder of SuperS had lost viewers, hence so many subtle call backs to the older seasons. So I'd say the emotional weight was simply different between the two, neither better nor worse. Obviously for Seiya and the Inners the anime had more for them to do so there was more weight for them. Meanwhile, for Usagi the emotional weight was at face value less in the anime because you had filler episodes to break things up, but then, Usagi in the anime is dealing with her feelings for Seiya and the absence of Mamoru. Loneliness because he is ghosting you vs lonliness because you are in denial are different things, I'd not say one is weightier than the other. Both hit hard when things come to a head in both versions

*Also, if we are making comparisons to S, S was MUCH more forced when it came to the Inner and Outer Senshi tensions. There is literally no logical reason for the Outers to have isolated themselves from the Inners besides them being prideful jerks. Like, there was no disadvantage in trusting them. They were objectively on the same team it was just that the Outers magically knew that the Inners wouldn't agree with their methods. But the fact that they were utterly dead-set on their methods itself was forced.

The Inners were more experienced and had, as essentially a matter of public record, saved the world multiple times. The Silver Crystal had managed to reincrnate the entire Silver Millennium, hence they themselves were alive int he 20th century. And yet, they were unwilling to entertain the idea that Usagi might find an alternative to sacrificing innocent lives. They didn't even have that faith when she saved them after they lost their own pure heart crystals. Hell, they needed to go 2 v 1 against her after she had SAVED THE WORLD and fulfilled the prophecy, proving herself the Messiah. And she did it WITHOUT sacrificing an innocent life. It was only after she beat them that they were willing to have faith in her. And this is aside from the fact that she is their Princess, she is literally their boss!

Throughout the season, the set-up was akin to not having faith in your teammate to win the game for you when your teammate it literally Jesus. Like fine, if they were anyone else that scepticism might be justified, but Usagi literally has OP miracle generating powers that, thus far, have had a 100% success rate. This includes the ability to just respawn everyone on Earth even if you fail. What do you lose really by bringing her into your confidence, working with her and entertaining the idea of trying things her way. Especially since her way is going to build a crystalline utopia in the future, which surely Setsuna would have informed them about???????

The Starlights being wary and not having faith in Usagi, not working with the Inners makes sense. They are from another Solar System. They don't know her. They do not know what she can do or what she has done. It makes sense they would keep their distance, and even then early on they were willing to form bonds with Usagi in the Sailor Musician episode...until Haruka and Michiru acted like xenophobic jerks.

So the Starlight/Sailor Team tensions actually made sense and was a lot more organic than the tensions between the Inners and Outers in S.

**For the record, in the Radio Drama for Return of the Jedi, when Darth Vader is dying he tells Luke that he is the man he always wanted to be. Ironically, Sailor Moon again recalls Star Wars, another space fuelled fairy tale

P.S. The Outer Senshi need to fight Usagi after she already saved the world to have faith in her. Meanwhile the Inner Senshi give their lives for Usagi at D-Point because they have faith that she will save the world, even though this means confronting her boyfriend. The Inners are the real homies.
 
Likes: Akari @ria

Al Evans

Luna Crescens
Jul 3, 2023
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Can't be too close to past self: Well there's a plot hole already. She's not even being consistent. (And Sailor Cosmos references having been at this spot as Sailor Moon before)

We all will die: But Sailor Cosmos won't. She'll live forever, alone. Unless she pulls an Optimus Primal destroying herself and Sailor Chaos when next she returns.

Absolute certainty that Sailor Chaos is unbeatable: She did defeat her but only after a difficult battle resulting in the death and destruction of everyone and everything else, and Sailor Chaos will reincarnate/revive like she did when Sailor Moon destroyed her inside the Cauldron.

History repeating itself from when Metalia destroyed Silver Millennium: That could be. So she and everyone else will be reborn in the new world? And again have to defend it from Chaos no doubt but maybe will have an easier time in the new world with new powerups and such?
1) That's what I'm saying. The fact that she is an exception to that rule can be interpretted as either she is from another timeline or she is just so OP the rules do not apply

2) What implies she won't die? None of her dialogue implies she is unkillable. She might be immortal in the Tolkein sense of the word (eternal life+eternal youth) but nothing implies she couldn't be killed via blunt force.

3) See, I made this mistake myself. Netflix, for some reason, gave me Japanese dialogue and the subs for the English dub instead of the English subs that matched the Japanese dialogue. In the English DUB Sailor Chaos is eventually defeated. But in the Japanese version of Cosmos, and in the original Manga, Sailor Chaos is not said to have been defeated. I was so confused I asked a friend who speaks Japanese to double check this for me. The major change from the manga is the omission of a line which more or less means Sailor Chaos can't be defeated via the same methods they'd used in the past. So, Sailor Chaos might be unbeatable altogether, or she might be beaten but is sure to someday return in one form or another. But that is the nature of life in both the Mooniverse and also metaphorically real life. Life and death. Light and darkness. They inevitably co-exist and keep each other in balance. That is the message i think of the finale. it is better to embrace life and live it despite the inevtable suffering that comes with it.

4) I think that is a reasonable interpretation. The dialogue in the Stars arc is rather confusing as it either means everyone can get a respawn or possibly only Sailor Crystal holders.

I think the idea is it is allegorical to life. All life comes with hardship. It is inevitable. But you live it anyway. You will die. It will suck. But the journey can make the end worth it.

If you take their reincarnation cycles as equivilent to generations of humanity, every generation has not only dealt with their own struggles, but also had to fight the same battles over and over again. For example, every generation must fight again and again to retain/regain free speech. If you follow my metaphor, Chaos would be the tendency for free speech to decline or be limited. In some generations that fight is easier than others. In other generations, that fight is far more desperate. It is a cycle, you try and maintain the cycle as best you can.
 
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Al Evans

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TOEI does not want to take risks in Sailor Stars even if it is the final season where they can take risks.
Not really. SuperS had massively damaged the series. They wanted to rebuild, you don't do that by doing crazy risks. That being said, I'd call killing off Mamoru and shipping Usagi with Seiya as a HUGE risk. Arguably writing out Chibi-Usa as well.
 

Al Evans

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I beg to differ. It's been too often said how the 90s anime butchered the plot, how everything makes sense in the manga, how it's a more well developed and mature story, yadayadayada.

The way some people talk about it you'd think it's much better than it actually is.
The reality is the Manga and the anime are equally inconsistent and nonsensical, just in different ways. In the manga you have a multiple choice as to who exactly facilitated the reincarnation of everyone. QS, Saturn, the Galaxy Cauldron? Hell, who does the Silver Crystal belong to? It is Usagi's Star Seed BUT Queen Serenity was wielding it BUT Chibi-Usa also had it??????

The truth is...No version of Sailor Moon had tight world building or writing. The closest thing to that was PGSM, which had the benefit of hindsight to work with and even then, if I rewatched it Im sure I'm going to find massive incongruieties. But this is a feature of the influences upon Sailor Moon anyway. Like there are few if any seasons of Super Sentai or Power Rangers that make sense or have legitimately good writing most of the time. Usually you are scaling things. It is good writing considering it is Power Rangers, or something like that. Additionally, to an extent I think the criteria for good writing here is how realistic it is. The thing is, how realistic do you want Sailor Moon to be? Because if you are blunt about it, realistically the entire premise of Sailor Moon is horrific as it revolves around a bunch of 14 year olds recruited to be child soldiers and forbade from consulting their parents about it. There is a reason why in Madoka Magica, a deconstruction of Magcial Girls, the Luna equivilant character is the villain.

As for Crystal, I view it a little bit like I view the Star Wars Special Editions and the prequels. Whatever you might personally prefer, it was an expression of the creator's vision. Takeuchi may well be blinded enough to think her writing from 25+ years ago was fine and didn't need updating. Or, she may have wanted Crystal/Eternal/Cosmos to (as much as was feasible) simply bring the story she wrote when she was a younger woman (not even married or a mother yet) to life as it was, warts and all.

So, as frustrated as I get with Crystal, my attitude has always been that it existed to be an animated rendition of the manga. In this sense, I'd have been more annoyed if they changed things to make it make more sense because that wasn't the mission statement of the project. It is why I am also frustrated by the changes in Season 1 specifically.

As for the 90s anime butchering the plot, I think anyone making such claims is just not aware of the production realities of the anime at the time. I think people presume it worked like most manga to anime adaptations. Manga is released. gets successful. Anime followes 1-2 years later. The reality is Sailor Moon had a weird production history. The manga practically existed so that Toei could use it as fuel to make an anime.
 

kasumigenx

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I don't think that is the idea.

The ending lends itself to interpretation, especially the Manga version where we are uncertain if Cosmos has anything to do with Crystal Tokyo or not.

For starters, in the Black Moon Arc we are told that if someone time travels they cannot be in the same place and time as their counterpart. usagi begins disappearing because she is spending too much time in too close a proximity to Neo-Queen Serenity. And yet, Sailor Cosmos for days is literally sleeping in the same bed as Usagi and nothing happens to either of them. Whilst we see Crystal Tokyo disappearing as a direct result of what Galaxia is doing in the 20th century, nothing happens to Sailor Cosmos who is from farther into the future. You could chalk this up to Sailor Cosmos, as the most powerful Senshi, simply being an exception to all the rules, or you could argue that she is in fact not from the same timeline in the first place. Whilst Usagi and NQS were from THE same timeline in the Black moon Arc, Sailor Cosmos may well be from a parallel timelines in other words.

But, for the sake of argument, lets say that is not the case, that Cosmos is from THE same timeline.

I don't think this denies Usagi her happy ending. She had her happy ending. She enjoyed it. But all things must come to an end. Creation and destruction. Life and death. There is a natural order and balance that must remain in play. You could even argue that Sailor Chaos was the price that had to be paid for having thousands of years of peace in Crystal Tokyo in the first place.

Based upon the Cosmos movie, I interpreted the idea that history will repeat itself. Sailor Chaos is to the future what Metalia was to the past. She destroys the old order and so Sailor Cosmos must do as her mother Queen Serenity did before her and let go of the world and life she knew so that the cycle may begin again. That is why her dialogue make allusions to her being a coward, to how she needs the courage to throw it all away and how nothing can be the same even if they beat Sailor Chaos. When Metalia wrecked the Silver Millennium Queen Serenity had to accept that nothing was ever going to be the same either, that the life she knew was forever gone, her kingdom was never going to come back. Sure, Crystal Tokyo was the natural successor to the Silver Millennium, but it wasn't the same thing. I think Sailor Cosmos faces the same choice and desired to not let the cycle begin anew but rather was desperately clinging to the life she had known. She wanted to put things back the way they had been when that was no longer possible. So, she had to have the courage to throw it all away and let the cycle begin again.

One could go farther and say this is the way of all life. We will all die. Our loved ones will eventually leave us or we will leave them, one way or another. But that doesn't mean it isn't worth embracing life and going on the journey, despite the inevitable pain and suffering we will deal with. Sailor Cosmos's plan to end suffering was ironically more terrible than what Sailor Chaos was doing. She wanted a peace that would be free of suffering but would essentially euphenise the galaxy. Usagi's POV was that the pain and suffering was part of life, but so was love and happiness too, the latter justifying the former and in turn making the right choice to be that life would continue onwards.

I think it is no accident this all happens a chapter before Usagi gets married. When you get married you are signing up for some amount of pain and suffering. On the most basic level, odds are one of you will die first and the years you spent together will make that hurt all the more than if you had remained alone. But the upsides of such a relationship make it worth it, children being the most obvious example of that; again, no accident that Usagi is pregnant in the final chapter.

Finally, it isn't an absolute certainty that Sailor Chaos is unbeatable. In the manga, unlike the film, the dialogue says something to the effect of Sailor Chaos being unbeatable if they use the tactics they had used before. In other words, the methods by which usagi has defeated metalia, Pharaoh 90, even Chaos itself, were ineffective. But that then opens the possibility that other tactics might work.

But even if we run by the movie where that line is omitted, Sailor Cosmos is going back to resume her fight, so on some level she must believe there is hope. And that is part and parcel of the Stars arc as a whole. The situation goes from bad to worse, the glimmer of hope being that with the Sailor Crystals Usagi can resurrect her friends...until Galaxia hurls the Crystals into the Galaxy Cauldron. That is the point at which there is ZERO hope. By all the rules that have been laid out to us Usagi's friends are GONE. In the best case scenario they will be reincarnated but the friends she has known as she has known them are gone forever. That is, until Usagi, with no rationale reason to think otherwise, decides to try. Despite having no reason to think it will work, she jumps into the Cauldron and successfully defeats Chaos, saves her friends AND restores Crystal Tokyo. This is probably the 'invincible power' Sailor Cosmos was referencing in the last chapter.

In my opinion, it is this I think that inspires Sailor Cosmos. She has no idea how or if she can defeat Sailor Chaos. She believed she has no hope of beating her. But she now has renewed courage to try. And, as Guardian Cosmos says, in the Galaxy Cauldron all things are possible. Basically her character arc is that of an older person who through age and suffering has lost touch with who she used to be when she was younger, until her younger self literally show her who she was supposed to be.

Whilst the ending is open to interpretation for sure, I think it is fair to argue that somehow Sailor Cosmos defeats Sailor Chaos and either
a) restores everything as it was, or
b) begins the galaxy's life cycle again, so she and Mamoru will be reborn again, and fall in love again

We don't know how she is going to do it, but equally no one knew how Usagi was going to defeat Chaos and save everyone in the final chapters either, and yet she did.
Not really. SuperS had massively damaged the series. They wanted to rebuild, you don't do that by doing crazy risks. That being said, I'd call killing off Mamoru and shipping Usagi with Seiya as a HUGE risk. Arguably writing out Chibi-Usa as well.
The risk I am talking about is Sailor Cosmos and the Eternal Outfits on the final battle those were at least hinted to be planned back in the day.
 
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Al Evans

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The risk I am talking about is Sailor Cosmos, Eternal Outfits on the final battle and the introduction of Rei's dad those were at least hinted to be planned back in the day.
Where? I've never heard that any of those things were planned for the anime?

Sailor Cosmos being scrapped made sense once they decided to change who ChibiChibi was going to be. And they likely changed that precisely because they didn't want to use the Manga ending
 
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