Influential Ranking: Manga, 90’s, Sera Myu, PGSM, or Crystal?

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Talentless Fool

Aurorae Lunares
Jan 23, 2023
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#41
HOW DARE YOU???!!!??

Ready.... BURN!!!!

I'm not here to hate on the manga or anyone having a preference for it.
Until Crystal, I actually preferred the manga in many ways.
I still find it enjoyable and somehow more readable than most manga coming out these days. It's a mess, but it's a mess I enjoy.
Don't insult my mangakas peasant!

Sailor Moon was almost dead in Nakayoshi thanks to Magic Knight Rayearth and Saint Tail long before SuperS came into play.
But, if SuperS killed the manga and franchise , doesn't it mean it was always more influential than the manga could ever be? :eyebrows:
 

Clow

Gurges Ater
Jul 29, 2012
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#42
@kasumigenx

“Sailor Moon” sold over 46 million copies, worldwide.

“Cardcaptor Sakura” and “Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicle,“ in comparison, sold between 20 and 29 million copies.

“Magic Knight Rayearth,“ while a fantastic story, did not make to the list of best-selling manga.

”Sailor Moon” sold even more copies than “The Rose of Versailles” (a classic).

Source here

Although “Magic Knight Rayearth” and “Cardcaptor Sakura” are both great, I have never ever heard anything about “Sailor Moon” losing readers while it was being serialized.







  • “Sailor Moon” admittedly ended when TOEI decided that “Stars” would be the last arc to be animated. Naoko Takeuchi could have continued the manga, but she chose not to. She told her fans here in the U.S. that she would like to see Sailor Moon animated beyond Stars.
 

Rika-Chicchi

Staff member
Site Admin
May 7, 2009
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#43
The Manga art was crappy enough that I cannot have the compulsion to complete it at a higher price.
Look at you, saying the most controversial things and getting away with it. What is your secret?!!
Like his/her posts, s/he's always an enigma. lol

It goes both ways though... SuperS is kind of 90s anime without the manga and it killed the franchise...
So since the manga, as part of the franchise, is dependent on the 90s anime, when the latter flops, the former too. :)
 

Clow

Gurges Ater
Jul 29, 2012
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#44
The last episode of the 90’s anime, episode 200, aired in Japan on February 8, 1997.

The last chapter of the manga was published by Nakayoshi in March of the same year:

 

Talentless Fool

Aurorae Lunares
Jan 23, 2023
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#45
If Sailor Moon was such a great success, why would Toei stop making new seasons after only 5 series and prefer to produce other magical girl-themed shows?
Dragon Ball Z was broadcast non-stop for nearly 8 years (and 3 years as Dragon Ball before that) and despite the manga ending, it was succeeded by Dragon Ball GT.
If Sailor Moon was still such a success, why didn't Toei produce a Sailor Moon GT (apparently like Takeuchi wanted?)

Also, if Sailor Moon was still the hot stuff and selling millions, why would Kondasha kill their milk cow?

We hear horror stories of Toriyama, Kishimoto and the likes on how they were forced to continue even after they were bankrupt of ideas or when the initial direction they intended to take their story was rejected by the publisher based on reaction from the fanbase.
So, Takeuchi gets to 'humbly' quit while her manga is still a mega boom?
Why would she get to have an exclusive preference in an industry that shows no mercy to any one else?

Hoshino Katsura, mangaka of D.Gray-Man, had to fight tooth and nail - despite a crumbling health and broken hand - with the Shounen Jump people so that her manga would stay true to her vision and go into a more mature direction and not diffuse into a traditional shounen manga.
And she succeded!
The manga shifted magazines and despite only 4 chapters per year now (again because of Hoshino's poor health), the manga is well loved by the fanbase (both domestically and internationally), it's still very well acknowledged by Shounen Jump (The SJ Shop in Suidobashi always has new D.Gray-Man goodies) and it was revealed the editors NEVER intended to cancel the manga even with all the hurdles in the way.

I guess, Naoko Takeuchi is perhaps really a princess :P

The problem is always Toei,
It's always Toei who cancels stuff,
It's always Toei who fails to produce new stuff, nurture and prolong the franchise,
It's Toei's duty to keep the franchise relevant and alive :|

Takeuchi kept complaining how she was never meeting deadlines and how she was tired and everything and fans always say she was forced to continue a story she didn't want.
And now, she WANTED to continue the story but preferred not to?
 
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Clow

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Jul 29, 2012
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#46
What Takeuchi said to the press in San Diego in 1998:

“When asked if the series would continue, Takeuchi confirmed that the story of Sailor Moon was indeed finished, as of the end of the eighteenth compiled volume. As the Sailor Moon Sailor Stars animation had stopped a bit short of her own ending in the manga, Takeuchi confessed that she’d been a little disappointed in the series‘ ending and that she shared the fans’ desire to see more animation produced, either in the forms of movies or OAVs. ‘But it is not my decision,’ she said with some regret.”

Source
 
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MamoRei4Life

Luna Crescens
Nov 8, 2023
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#48
Don’t think SuperS killed the franchise. If that were the case then PGSM and Crystal wouldn’t have been a consideration in the first place. They would have left SM franchise alone if they didn’t think they could make good profits from the fan base if the franchise was killed (fan bases don’t usually grow when a franchise killed). When Crystal was first announced, people were hyped to see it plus someone mentioned here that it had like nearly 8 million views at the time, and now the trailers barely get over a million (takes months to get there too).

People were still intrigued by SM after Super S, and apparently so were the studios (for profit purposes tho) , so despite SuperS being the least favorite season of the 90’s anime, still lead to other versions being made plus some of those versions even showing nods to the 90’s anime that supposedly “killed” the franchise. Too early to say what killed franchise until decades go by and SM is like pretty much forgotten plus not getting new content (like Sailor V anime or a 6th arc).

Also have to think about whether people would still care for the new content at whatever point they’d decide to go through with it. Guess the real question would be : what would be the best way to start off giving SM new content? Adapting Sailor V manga? Continuing straight from 5th arc to a 6th arc? Creating a Netflix Live Action Adaptation (since they seem to be on the rise thanks to OP) with some new twists then continuing the story from there?
 
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Clow

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#49
TOEI continued investing money in Sailor Moon… but not too much.

We had PGSM in the early-00s.

We had Crystal in the last decade and we have the films in this new decade.

TOEI treated Crystal poorly in the beginning, releasing it as an ONA series, but TOEI now has its own recyclable magical girl franchise to keep Bandai happy.

I appreciate that TOEI improved Crystal seasons 1-2 for the DVD/BD release, I think that Crystal season III was great and now we have the films.TOEI may have treated Crystal poorly in the beginning, but the films are co-animated by Studio Deen.

As for Naoko’s relationship with TOEI and Kodansha, nobody knows…

Some say that Naoko is supposed to be like Usagi. I think she is more like Michiru, Setsuna and Sailor Cosmos. Very private and mysterious. She said in the 90’s that she was unhappy with the season finale of the 90’s anime, but she is more secretive nowadays. Her husband is the one who acts like Usagi: he says what he pleases, loves video games, mocks everything and has a sense of humor similar to Kuwabara’s (Yu Yu Hakusho). Maybe that is why she fell in love with him. :diana:
 

Lady Pen

Aurorae Lunares
Mar 12, 2021
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#50
How did Infinity perform in Nakayoshi? Can you give us a source?
You have all Nakayoshi issues scanned on Miss Dream.

Sailor Moon was a mega hit in the magazine during 1992/93. You can see it in both the preference order of the readers and the popularity ranking.

In mid 1994, around summer, you can see how the interest of the readers changed. Magic Knight Rayearth went to the top and SM started losing positions. It went from the number 1 to number 4/5 at the end of the year. Once Saint Tail began to be serialised, this new manga went to number 2 ( and 1 for some months) in 1995 sharing the popularity with MKR while SM became a manga series with average to bad results at the time until in 1996 it stayed at the bottom of the ranking and the readers preferences. CardCaptor Sakura had the crown when MKR and Saint Tail ended. Also, Nakayoshi, for some reason we'll never know, promoted less and less the series from 1994 to 1997.

Now I'll question: Where did the rumour of SuperS being a failure come from? Because that's not true. Yes, we have the ratings on the japanese wikipedia, but those ratings are only for the Kanto region. SuperS average ratings in Kanto were 11% (the same as the first season!!!). Yes, it's not the 13/14% of Sailor Moon R & S, but really good for a Mahou Shoujo anime. The toys selling is another thing, of course.

I think it's a myth like the famous ' Naoko hates every version of SM bar the manga '. Please............... Each message written by her I've read has made me realise she loves and respects all the adaptations of her story while her most obsessive fans have tried to write a story through a number of rumours along the decades to force the rest of the fandom to eulogise her figure and treat the printed version as the Holy Bible. Go to reddit and read some of the comments..........
Then we are criticised for looking for facts and using our critical thinking by certain member instead of going for the naive answers.
Do you remember when I said Naoko did not design most of the magical items after the first story arc? That they were designed by Fukano? Well, now you can see in the new art made for the museum released two days ago that Naoko has used again the Moon Stick and a generic heart shape jewel instead of the actual Heart Compact and the Heart Moon Rod.

But, if SuperS killed the manga and franchise , doesn't it mean it was always more influential than the manga could ever be? :eyebrows:


@kasumigenx

“Sailor Moon” sold over 46 million copies, worldwide.
But that is considering the international releases from the 90's to 2020's. In that case I can say SuperS has sold millions and millions of VHS, Laserdiscs, DVDs & Blu Rays around the world.

@kasumigenx


Although “Magic Knight Rayearth” and “Cardcaptor Sakura” are both great, I have never ever heard anything about “Sailor Moon” losing readers while it was being serialized.
You don't have to heard of / read. You have to go and find the facts and sources by yourself. That's why this fandom is full of unfounded rumours about Takeuchi, Toei, etc. We have official sources, like Nakayoshi issues, the tankobons comments of the author, some former animators and Bandai people who worked on the franchise and has given us some facts through books, interviews, unknown material in conferences, and so on.

@kasumigenx

“Sailor Moon” admittedly ended when TOEI decided that “Stars” would be the last arc to be animated. Naoko Takeuchi could have continued the manga, but she chose not to. She told her fans here in the U.S. that she would like to see Sailor Moon animated beyond Stars.
SM probably ( almost surely ) ended because toys did not sell anymore and Bandai wanted to stop sponsoring the show. What happens to all the commercial and fastfood anime in Japan, specially Toei's.

The last episode of the 90’s anime, episode 200, aired in Japan on February 8, 1997.

The last chapter of the manga was published by Nakayoshi in March of the same year:

I'll remind you that the february issue of 1992 was released in december 1991. The manga ended before the anime. But actually both finished at the same time because the episode 200 probably entered in production in december 1996, not a week or a month before of the end of anime's broadcast. That's impossible.
 
Feb 8, 2021
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#51
CLAMP Campus Detectives was animated and sponsored by Bandai with its manga dropped by CLAMP after they started to work with MKR while neither Sailor V nor Cherry Project was ever animated...it explains Bandai's views on Takeuchi and CLAMP.
 
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saintfighteraqua

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Feb 16, 2021
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#52
@kasumigenx

“Sailor Moon” sold over 46 million copies, worldwide.

“Cardcaptor Sakura” and “Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicle,“ in comparison, sold between 20 and 29 million copies.

“Magic Knight Rayearth,“ while a fantastic story, did not make to the list of best-selling manga.

”Sailor Moon” sold even more copies than “The Rose of Versailles” (a classic).

Source here

Although “Magic Knight Rayearth” and “Cardcaptor Sakura” are both great, I have never ever heard anything about “Sailor Moon” losing readers while it was being serialized.







  • “Sailor Moon” admittedly ended when TOEI decided that “Stars” would be the last arc to be animated. Naoko Takeuchi could have continued the manga, but she chose not to. She told her fans here in the U.S. that she would like to see Sailor Moon animated beyond Stars.
I love all of these old magazine covers, it reminds me of what we had here in America in the late 90s/early 2000s. Such a shame it didn't last, having a shojo magazine was such a fun thing!
 

MamoRei4Life

Luna Crescens
Nov 8, 2023
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#53
I think it's a myth like the famous ' Naoko hates every version of SM bar the manga '. Please............... Each message written by her I've read has made me realise she loves and respects all the adaptations of her story while her most obsessive fans have tried to write a story through a number of rumours along the decades to force the rest of the fandom to eulogise her figure and treat the printed version as the Holy Bible. Go to reddit and read some of the comments..........
Then we are criticised for looking for facts and using our critical thinking by certain member instead of going for the naive answers.
I swear Reddit has some of the worst part of the fandom there. Anything that they disliked in the 90’s anime that just so happened to not be in the manga would just be disregarded plus they’d say “well it was just filler and a waste of time anyway”. Funny how the same isn’t said about the Rainbow Crystal arc, Usagi/Mamoru identity reveal, and lifeless-looking SM carrying baby Hotaru in the S season. Conveniently it’s only filler when they dislike or found the story arc “boring”.
 
Jul 5, 2009
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#54
I swear Reddit has some of the worst part of the fandom there. Anything that they disliked in the 90’s anime that just so happened to not be in the manga would just be disregarded plus they’d say “well it was just filler and a waste of time anyway”.


 

Clow

Gurges Ater
Jul 29, 2012
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#55
I don’t know about Nakayoshi polls, but speaking strictly about manga volume:

  • The volume of printed copies of the “Sailor Moon” manga (including re-editions) is far greater than the volume of printed copies of “Magic Knight Rayearth.”
  • The Sailor Moon manga has greater demand.
  • No publisher would print and/or re-print a manga in different formats if there was no demand.

The “Magic Knight Rayearth“ manga is fantastic (anime is better, IMO). I can see MKR becoming more popular than Sailor Moon back in the 90s. The MKR manga, though, does not have the volume of printed copies that the Sailor Moon manga has in the present day.
 
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Cerberus

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#56
If Sailor Moon was such a great success, why would Toei stop making new seasons after only 5 series and prefer to produce other magical girl-themed shows?
Dragon Ball Z was broadcast non-stop for nearly 8 years (and 3 years as Dragon Ball before that) and despite the manga ending, it was succeeded by Dragon Ball GT.
If Sailor Moon was still such a success, why didn't Toei produce a Sailor Moon GT (apparently like Takeuchi wanted?)

Also, if Sailor Moon was still the hot stuff and selling millions, why would Kondasha kill their milk cow?
Because XX century entertainment industry WAS different than modern era all over the world. The companies were far more willing to try new ideas and original IPs, they didn't fixate exclusively on "evergreen" franchises (that concept barely existed back then) and even a small declined inpopularity among the audiences was quite correctly interpreted as the time to move on.

The internet changed the game by amplifiying the nostalgia among the general audience to the umptenth degree so yes, it does work differently nowadays. Notice that even Dragon Ball ended soon after Z finale with GT only lasting 64 episodes. Star Wars ended in 1983 for YEARS and only started coming back in 1999. Same with the comicbook and game industries. West and East.

Sure, both Japan and the West had some proto-evergreen series like Star Trek or Sentai but it was far less common because the audiences were more into new and original content back then then we are now.

I say "we" cause we're all guilty of it, to a smaller or lesser degree. The fact that these days we can spend an entire month, thanks to the internet, talking about a 90s anime/manga with other people willing to do the same amps up our nostalgia and reduces our consumption/desire for new and original content. That wasnt even an option for the audiences in the XX century so naturally they used to move on far quicker and demand far more original material.
 
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