Is there a reason the '90's made Mamoru such an asshole?

[ultramarine]

Amazing that this was their train of thought and they had the actual compelling and sensible plotline right under their nose and they still chose to go for the completely asinine and nonsensical: “Threats from King Endymion in order to “test” their love, because reasons.”

Show had only Usagi's point of view, your opnion is average.

I think Mamoru may felt guilty about Usagi, It's like he suspects that all misfortune are because they fell in love or something. (He said "Go back to a normal girl, Find more handsome boyfriend than me" to Usagi when he was dying)

Btw, Ikuhara said he like 80s movie Mobile Suit Gundam: Shar of Counterattack. Its story is about a general called Char Aznable dropping a meteorite on the earth and people make sacrifices to stop it, well known that Ikuhara used it as a reference for R Movie. Char is worst boyfriend ever, He takes his girlfriend to war, believing she is chosen one who can guide him on the right path, but all girls are killed at war. In a way, he is similar to Utena's Ohtori Akio.
People say Tuxedo Mask looks like Char. 90s Mamoru shared voice actor with Char's rival called Amuro Ray. (also 90s Queen Beryl shared voice with Char's first girlfriend called Lalah, 90s Nephrite shared voice with Char's bestfriend who he murdered called Garma) Maybe a conscious casting choice, and I have a feeling animator tried to make them a little like but different characters.

 

[ultramarine]

Interesting. If Animage magazine said so, it should be true. It seems they wanted to portray a real relationship and strengthen it.

I wasn't sure exactly when the article was written, but it was very specific, so I think it's credible.

"As I said in another thread, at the beginning of R, episode 60, Usagi & Mamoru were a weak couple. They only had a previous life in common, a confrontation was necessary. In the episode 64 Usagi realised what she liked more about him and Mamoru states during the entire series why he loves her, to be more precise in the first season, SuperS and Stars. So, they were not always leaning on the so called Miracle Romance.

Yeah, They lacked source of love's confirmation other than previous lifes before R, but after R, their love has more solid.

 

[Neo King Rose]

specifically to annoy me personally

 

[ultramarine]

My English was a mess. I'm really sorry. (fixed some of it)

 

[B sizzle]

My English was a mess. I'm really sorry. (fixed some of it)

Hey the fact you went to the effort to type it is awesome. Trust me I know many people who’s first language is English and your English is way better than any of theirs.

 

[B sizzle]

My English was a mess. I'm really sorry. (fixed some of it)

I know you used a machine to translate but I appreciate you went to that effort to do that. To look up some stuff I would have to use a translater in the past.

 

[FloraKiraraHime]

Hey the fact you went to the effort to type it is awesome. Trust me I know many people who’s first language is English and your English is way better than any of theirs.

Their English is great!

 

[sapphire91]

I wasn't sure exactly when the article was written, but it was very specific, so I think it's credible.

Yeah, They lacked source of love's confirmation other than previous lifes before R, but after R, their love has more solid.

Really? I mean sure, they never broke up again or anything, but movies aside, in tv show itself their relationship was a joke in S and SuperS. It was weird and strange, he seemed more and more distant or the whole idea of the relationship was used exclusively for gags. In fact if you just start watching it at this point it feels more like Mamoru is being harassed by Usagi and Chibi Usa and is actually annoyed at them, while they keep on going all over him. You can totally forget Usagi and Mamoru are actually in a relationship.

 

[ultramarine]

Really? I mean sure, they never broke up again or anything, but movies aside, in tv show itself their relationship was a joke in S and SuperS. It was weird and strange, he seemed more and more distant or the whole idea of the relationship was used exclusively for gags. In fact if you just start watching it at this point it feels more like Mamoru is being harassed by Usagi and Chibi Usa and is actually annoyed at them, while they keep on going all over him. You can totally forget Usagi and Mamoru are actually in a relationship.

Like... I guess it's a difference in target audience. 90s was for more younger girls, so can't focus on romance so much. Especially they have the age difference in 90s.
I interpret it as a lot of their romantic relationship development has within outscreen.

 

[imaginationgirl]

Really? I mean sure, they never broke up again or anything, but movies aside, in tv show itself their relationship was a joke in S and SuperS. It was weird and strange, he seemed more and more distant or the whole idea of the relationship was used exclusively for gags. In fact if you just start watching it at this point it feels more like Mamoru is being harassed by Usagi and Chibi Usa and is actually annoyed at them, while they keep on going all over him. You can totally forget Usagi and Mamoru are actually in a relationship.

I really hated how the 90s anime treated Mamorou.Thry really gave him the shaft and his relationship with Usagi the dumpster.The only solace I have that every new version sailor moon would use the manga as a base. So we won't have anything like the beeak up arc again.

 

[Lady Pen]

I really hated how the 90s anime treated Mamorou.Thry really gave him the shaft and his relationship with Usagi the dumpster.The only solace I have that every new version sailor moon would use the manga as a base. So we won't have anything like the beeak up arc again.

Mamoru is not a good character, neither the manga nor the 90's. I don't know why some people depicts Manga Mamoru like the male character culmination of shoujo. He's a mannequin whose role is to be a weak prince to be rescued by his princess. He's just a plot device in both versions to move the main character forward. His relationship with Usagi is puerile since there's no any conflict, any growth, just a handful of hugs, kisses, 'I love yous' and empty moral support dialogues, enveloped in shoujo screentone.

Anyway, the thin development of that sort of relationship is also intentional, in the end it's a magical girls for children and the inclusion of this romance beyond the first arc feels forced due to the magazine it was published in.

 

[Tsundereshipper]

The only solace I have that every new version sailor moon would use the manga as a base

That would be a shame since as much as the 90’s anime is flawed, there are many elements I love about it that I wish they would retain, such as the depiction of most of the villains.

Also this isn’t completely true, even the Nelke Myus which are supposed to be more manga leaning still mix elements of the 90’s anime within them. The Nelke Dream/SuperS Myu for example completely erases the Quartet as characters and uses the 90’s anime portrayal of the Amazon Trio.

Mamoru is not a good character, neither the manga nor the 90's.

And yet he’s still one of the few characters not named Usagi that gets the most focus and development in the manga…

Interestingly enough he seemed to have a bit of a character arc going on there in Classic, but that was almost entirely dropped post R and he was regulated to a background accessory boyfriend character once the cast kept expanding and Ikuhara preferring to keep the focus on the girls.

What’s really sad though is he had the potential to be a such a great character in both versions - all the backstory and mechanics are there, his concept is actually really interesting and unique concerning his identity issues relative to most of the rest of the cast, it’s just neither Naoko or Toei knew how to make full use of him.

PGSM is probably the best he’ll ever get.

 

[imaginationgirl]

I would not consider it a shame.There was lot of stuff from the anime were probably not going to see again.Which is probably good thing.Not that I am against them making references or getting some cues from the 90s. Just that in newer stuff will be manga base and they make something new.

 

[B sizzle]

Their English is great!

I agree with you their English is great. Lol Epically those who have to learn it.

 

[ultramarine]

Mamoru is not a good character, neither the manga nor the 90's. I don't know why some people depicts Manga Mamoru like the male character culmination of shoujo. He's a mannequin whose role is to be a weak prince to be rescued by his princess. He's just a plot device in both versions to move the main character forward. His relationship with Usagi is puerile since there's no any conflict, any growth, just a handful of hugs, kisses, 'I love yous' and empty moral support dialogues, enveloped in shoujo screentone.

Anyway, the thin development of that sort of relationship is also intentional, in the end it's a magical girls for children and the inclusion of this romance beyond the first arc feels forced due to the magazine it was published in.

Sailor Moon is the gender-swapping of an old-fashioned male superhero. Mamoru was a gender swap version of a damsel in distress.

90s anime tried to be more focused on girl students' friendships than romance, also Love between 14 year old and 18 year old may be immoral in a kid show. Love with an age gap is quite worrisome, have to take care of their family or friends than satisfy their own feelings. In that sense, it may be difficult to portray.
I think it's unrealistic to say Manga's Mamoru goes to a medical course at a top university with his dead parents' inheritance, Even though he lives in the city center's expensive apartment. Maybe it's because male animators made that, I think 90s has more sound thought, he take genetic engineering course at a university (according to 20th-anniversary book) while working part-time. (Even though he has a luxury car and motorbike)
Mamoru said Usagi is more as one of a family than a girlfriend at R movie. If that's the case, his goal is marriage with her, so it's best to be cautious.

 

[Tsundereshipper]

also Love between 14 year old and 18 year old may be immoral in a kid show.

Which they wouldn’t have had to ever worry about if Toei hadn’t made the asinine decision to age up Mamoru in the first place.

 

[ultramarine]

Which they wouldn’t have had to ever worry about if Toei hadn’t made the asinine decision to age up Mamoru in the first place.

Tuxedo Mask drove the bus at 90s Mars' first appearance. In Japanese, only over 18 can get a driver's license it’s illegal to under age of 17 do.
Sato and Ikuhara said they never believed Sailor Moon getting popular, I think they had planned to end it at less than lovers like Dark Kingdom arc at first. (I don't remember where I saw it but animator seem wanted to Usagi/Mamoru called each other Mamoru-san/Usagi as until Doom Tree arc, however, Naoko asked to change it as Mamo-chan/Usako like Manga. )
According to SuperS, Mamoru is fascinated by a pretty religious sister or dentist's assistant, who are older woman than Usagi. he doesn't seem to be a pedo.

 

[sapphire91]

Tuxedo Mask drove the bus at episode that Mars' first appearance. In Japanese, only over 18 can get a driver's license it’s illegal to under age of 17 do. Maybe that's what made Toei change his age.
Sato and Ikuhara said they never believed Sailor Moon is getting popular, I think they had initially planned to end it at less than lovers like Dark Kingdom arc. I don't remember where I saw it but it seems that animator wanted way to Usagi/Mamoru called each other Mamoru-san/Usagi as until Doom Tree arc however Naoko asked to change it as Mamo-chan/Usako like Manga. (not sure of relevance but Manga's Usagi said "call me Usako" to Endo)
Story changes, but Mamoru was fascinated by Religious sister/Dentist's assistant at SuperS, Maybe he would prefer older women.

It was a decision they also made themselves. He doesn't even mage to follow the bus in the manga.

 

[FloraKiraraHime]

Which they wouldn’t have had to ever worry about if Toei hadn’t made the asinine decision to age up Mamoru in the first place.

I know!

 

[imaginationgirl]

Tuxedo Mask drove the bus at episode that Mars' first appearance. In Japanese, only over 18 can get a driver's license it’s illegal to under age of 17 do. Maybe that's what made Toei change his age.
Sato and Ikuhara said they never believed Sailor Moon is getting popular, I think they had initially planned to end it at less than lovers like Dark Kingdom arc. I don't remember where I saw it but it seems that animator wanted way to Usagi/Mamoru called each other Mamoru-san/Usagi as until Doom Tree arc however Naoko asked to change it as Mamo-chan/Usako like Manga. (not sure of relevance but Manga's Usagi said "call me Usako" to Endo)
Story changes, but Mamoru was fascinated by Religious sister/Dentist's assistant at SuperS, Maybe he would prefer older women.

It wasn't his bus.He just drove it.He is not 18 when the manga begin.He was in high school..