Naoko Takeuchi's Recent Artwork

[Lady Pen]

Yeah I have no control over myself when it's about collections so I end up buying everything haha. Therefore I feel authorized to criticize, but her work on SM is still dearly to me even since it's a children thing. But it seems people have pain to understand that concept: you can like something and heavily criticize the same thing at the same time. What a concept eh ?


The thing is that it's hard for some of us to like something that has so many mistakes (and anatomy for example is not a matter of taste, there are body proportions, muscle flexibility etc.).
I can to a certain extend like something that has weird composition or weird anatomy if it doesn't perturb my experience. As I said earlier, I like her manga because there is a cool story, characters I like, color illustrations that had nice color settings (not always but you know what I mean) etc. It's not perfect but there are other stronger points that activate the suspension of disbelief on my mind. Now, 30 years later, there is no more apologies.

It's totally fine for you to like this, really, but for people who know a bit about anatomy, composition, color theory, it's really painful to watch (and I'm not saying this to feel superior or anything).

I said good things about Naoko as a manga author in the past, but you know... people were never interested in those analysis.

@Talentless Fool , say a good thing about Naoko as an author/artist.

 

[Mathiwn]

My god, talk about being thick. They insist...
Time to put some people on "ignore".

 

[Hadibou]

Even with respect to anatomy, there's always going to be leeway when it comes to stylization. Acting like any aspect of art can be objectively and definitively critiqued is just... wrong.

But stylization comes after you have mastered the rules and know how to bend them. You’re implying Naoko’s mistakes are intended as stylization but they are a consequence of her lack of knowledge about anatomy more than anything.

 

[SM458]

Honestly guys, the only solution is to just start putting people on ignore. I have done it and it's improved by forum experience a lot. Otherwise these topics are going to be constantly derailed because there is no serious moderation in this forum.

Also, at the end of day, a bunch of anonymous people on a forum might think Naoko is an abomination of an artist and they have every right to, but clearly she must be doing something right if a luxury brand like Chanel is featuring her art.

Plus it is confirmed, Chanel is beyond picky who should they associate with their image.

 

[SignorinaTsukino]

Plus it is confirmed, Chanel is beyond picky who should they associate with their image.

If only I had the money to support this collaboration(or the Jimmy Choo one) lol

 

[Memento]

But stylization comes after you have mastered the rules and know how to bend them. You’re implying Naoko’s mistakes are intended as stylization but they are a consequence of her lack of knowledge about anatomy more than anything.

You can look through my Manga Art Errors thread: I'm definitely well-aware that Naoko doesn't have the best grasp on basic anatomy in her art. I was making a general comment on how all facets of art are ultimately subjective. (Also, some people commented negatively about the proportions in Naoko's art, but fashion illustrations typically have unrealistic proportions because it flatters the clothes being showcased.)

 

[Yamoon]

Plus it is confirmed, Chanel is beyond picky who should they associate with their image.

oh really I can’t believe that!! Takeuchi the worst artist ever, her manga is beyond bad and ridiculous. She probably blackmailed someone to get this collaboration. What you’re not agree with me ? How dare I’m Lady Pain I know everything about everything, you have no talent to judge something or not I know better !! Just going to burn now some photos and some mangas of her because I’m entitled behind my computer.

@Hadibou you make some valid points however some artist don’t want to respect the rules. If she wants to draw the way she wants she’s entitled too (even if she’s not doing it on purpose), as much as you’re entitled to hate her art you can still respect people who like it.

You think Picasso was giving a [BLEEP] about anatomy proportion ? Comon if there is one domain where rules can be broken most of the times is art…

if you think she just not talented then that you right to present your arguments, but don’t reproach people who like her art to be artistically “ignorant”. That way of thinking is just wrong. And that’s is coming from someone who never really like Takeuchi art… honestly for me most of the time her drawings are basic and forgettable…

 

[HappyMoon]

You think Picasso was giving a [BLEEP] about anatomy proportion ? Comon if there is one domain where rules can be broken most of the times is art…

Uhm... have you ever seen Picasso's early works? He used to be a master of realistic portraits in his early days. His "not giving a bleep about anatomy proportions" was because to him every act of art creation was an act of destruction. Honestly, can you see that depth in anything Takeuchi ever created? And this is coming from someone who actually REALLY likes her drawings.

Picasso painted this when he was 14 years old. FOURTEEN. Eighth grade. How on earth do you think this is a... Idk, a proper comparison?

 

[Joaco95]

you know i love naoko art but these are really bad
i wish she would stop using their weapons and give them actual model poses or better dinamics, its a fashion collab lmao
she did better back in the day (example: )

 

[Wild Rose Rebellion]

Yes, it can be quite overwhelming when you like some new trailer and check this forum to see discussions and you see people discussing ad-hominem about how horrible it looks. Of course if something has flaws we should talk about it, but it's exhausting the way it happens here, almost as if they want us to feel guilty for not thinking Cosmos looks horrible from the trailers?

When it's all huge dissertative thesis about how Naoko's a horrible mangaka, or about how Toei sucks, or how the 90s anime is so much better, about how they didn't draw 4000 frames for a 10-second sequence in some new trailer, and how Sailor Moon's "forgotten and irrelevant" and that's why Toei's cheap about it...

And then they answer with sarcastic condescending comments saying we want "everyone to love crystal" and how we think "Princess Naoko-hime-sama can't do no wrong" when literally the only thing we want is not just see endless toxic rambling about something these people are supposedly fans of.

I think this post summarizes really well why I hadn't posted in months. It's exhausting to post here, sometimes to even browse here. I really appreciate the posters who try to keep things positive, but it's usually an uphill effort. In this very thread we have four pages of toxicity from a few and exasperated reactions from those who dare enjoy things from the series this forum is based on, reactions that are understandable because if you dare enjoy things here you get condescending, pseudo-intellectual essays with sassy gifs about how ignorant you are and about how the series this forum is based on is objectively awful.

Meanwhile, like @GuerreroLuna pointed out, in nearly every other Sailor Moon space people actually enjoy Sailor Moon, can criticize it without veering into delusional hate, and can celebrate things such as this series getting a Chanel collaboration without getting nonstop condescension and toxicity every other post.

Keep writing those Takeuchi-hating essays about how much of a failure she is, she'll still be an iconic manga artist who redefined pop culture and most people in this forum and elsewhere will continue to enjoy her works.

 

[Nadia]

I think this post summarizes really well why I hadn't posted in months. It's exhausting to post here, sometimes to even browse here. I really appreciate the posters who try to keep things positive, but it's usually an uphill effort. In this very thread we have four pages of toxicity from a few and exasperated reactions from those who dare enjoy things from the series this forum is based on, reactions that are understandable because if you dare enjoy things here you get condescending, pseudo-intellectual essays with sassy gifs about how ignorant you are and about how the series this forum is based on is objectively awful.

I disagree. Some of us like people having different opinions, even opinions they disagree with. Many of my favorite posts are when people disagree with me and show why they think I'm wrong. The last thing any forum needs to become is an echo chamber.

Discussion forums are for discussion. Without different points of view, there is no point to having a forum.

For the record, my opinion on the new art is in between the two extremes. While there are some undeniable flaws, at the same time, since CHANEL and Sailor Moon are partnered, we have no idea what the criteria for the artwork is. For all we know the parameters might have boxed Takeuchi in. It doesn't matter to me, though, since I don't have any money to afford CHANEL products anyway.

 

[MsImagination]

My god, talk about being thick. They insist...
Time to put some people on "ignore".

Don't forget if you call out any of the posts.Than accuse you of taking it personally, mock you, be condescending or try to say it was just criticism .

 

[MsImagination]

I disagree. Some of us like people having different opinions, even opinions they disagree with. Many of my favorite posts are when people disagree with me and show why they think I'm wrong. The last thing any forum needs to become is an echo chamber.

Discussion forums are for discussion. Without different points of view, there is no point to having a forum.

.

Why discussions is important and having different views.Thats just not what happen here.You had people downing others opinions , treating their own ones like fact.I don't think Wild Rebrllion wants echo chamber and no one wants that .

 

[Nadia]

Why discussions is important and having different views.Thats just not what happen here.You had people downing others opinions , treating their own ones like fact.I don't think Wild Rebrllion wants echo chamber and no one wants that .

Except in the post just before that you're downing other people's opinions.

Don't forget if you call out any of the posts.Than accuse you of taking it personally, mock you, be condescending or try to say it was just criticism .

Nobody should be "calling out" or insulting anyone for what they think.

 

[MsImagination]

Except in the post just before that you're downing other people's opinions.



Nobody should be "calling out" or insulting anyone for what they think.

That's not me downing for their opinions.Thats me calling out the attitude.

 

[Nadia]

That's not me downing for their opinions.Thats me calling out the attitude.

Insulting people for their opinions or their attitude is just plain wrong. What's wrong with letting people have their say no matter how they choose to say it?

 

[saintfighteraqua]

I'm enjoying both the critiques and the praise on this thread...some of the rudeness, not so much.

But how boring would it be if everyone just praised the art and moved on? Or vice versa, if we all agreed to just hate it and left it there.
I think it's important not to make any personal attacks or take things directed at the art as a personal attack.

Having new art from Naoko is fun regardless of how we feel about this collab, it is something to talk about. It gives us something to discuss.
Taking each piece from this set as an individual item instead of as a whole also lets us see the flaws and artistic nature in each part.

I also don't think Naoko has anything to prove. She isn't claiming she's great, she doesn't even seem to like creating anymore. She made one of the most popular, recognizable and memorable series from Japan ever.

At the same time, her art is flawed. Maybe that's what makes her so much fun to discuss? Sure, that art from Bleach or Naruto is better done, but there's so much of it and it all blurs together. Technically better, artistically inferior... in my opinion.

Naoko doesn't have to create a masterpiece worthy of the Louvre to still be called an artist. But she's good enough that I'd love to have her stuff hanging in my house and I'll take her art over other manga artists, to be honest since it has a dreamy quality that only she seems to be able to reach.

 

[JayD22460]

Let people express their thoughts, and if you feel someone is truly being disruptive or acting with bad intentions, just ignore them.

I like the art. It's fine to me. Looks like Takeuchi to me. I like it but I don't care enough about it to argue with people who obviously know more about art as a craft than I do as a consumer.

You're gonna find that there are people in every fandom who like to act out when they think they know how to push your buttons. Don't let snide remarks peppered into replies or comments get to you. We're nerdy strangers on the Internet.

 

[Rika-Chicchi]

As a 1st step to calm things down, I request everyone not to add graphic memes to their posts on this thread from now on, because they're not essential in discussions & can be provocative. I hope I wouldn't need to take any further steps because they inevitably feel restrictive in regard to freedom of speech, but if people aren't being considerate to others when exercising their freedom, they're inviting more restrictions & that certainly won't feel good for everyone, including myself.

 

[SM458]

At this rate, I am very happy to see Naoko publishing new art. It means more will come.