Even if I have a lot of critics about her art, I would gladly buy new artbooks, including all illustrations for early 2000’s (Sailormoon Channel etc.).
Maybe they will end this reboot with these artbooks we were promised long time ago ?
Uhm... have you ever seen Picasso's early works? He used to be a master of realistic portraits in his early days. His "not giving a bleep about anatomy proportions" was because to him every act of art creation was an act of destruction. Honestly, can you see that depth in anything Takeuchi ever created? And this is coming from someone who actually REALLY likes her drawings.Picasso painted this when he was 14 years old. FOURTEEN. Eighth grade. How on earth do you think this is a... Idk, a proper comparison?
Of course, my comparison to Picasso was obviously exaggerated lol (and I was talking about his second period, not his beginnings). Takeuchi remains a manga artist and not an internationally known painter, hahaha! I just wish people would be less serious here.... You can still hate the bitch, but it remains funny
Because Venus de Milo's composition is excellent even without arms. Its composition is clearly open, despite the absence of the arms. The author employed a helical or , I suppose, serpentine composition, achieved with a smooth and balanced turn of the body to the left, which invites the viewer to seek multiple viewpoints. The study of the female anatomy is detailed and elegant, with harmonious proportions and natural volumes that depart from the geometric style of early classicism, such as in Polyclitus' Doryphoros. It has a refined technique creating striking contrasts of light and shadow that enhance the dynamism of the image. If you look at her face, it appears serene, following the classical tradition, avoiding the expression of emotions.
Takeuchi's latest pictures are grotesque, rubbish without a solid art base that could hold it up. You can behead the characters and the illustrations would still look ugly.
I think it's time for us to separate the 'art' term from the name Naoko Takeuchi.
I pity Takeuchi's fans. They don't realise she's fooling them.
Every piece of art in this world MUST have composition. It's not taste. It's not an opinion. We need blood and oxygen to live, artworks need composition to work.
Let people express their thoughts, and if you feel someone is truly being disruptive or acting with bad intentions, just ignore them.
I like the art. It's fine to me. Looks like Takeuchi to me. I like it but I don't care enough about it to argue with people who obviously know more about art as a craft than I do as a consumer.
You're gonna find that there are people in every fandom who like to act out when they think they know how to push your buttons. Don't let snide remarks peppered into replies or comments get to you. We're nerdy strangers on the Internet.
Criticism of Naoko has always been there, but everything started going haywire when people called other people... names (to say the least) when some members were discussing if maybe Naoko was a bigot due to her attitude towards foreign markets.
I think these people should all apologize to each other and move on.
We all know Naoko isn't a great artist. We all know she doesn't treat her overseas fanbase as they deserve. And, at the same time, we know she was the creative mind behind the characters and universe we love. Let's criticize her respectfully and not accuse our fellow forum members of stuff such as "racism." I've already called Naoko names over frustration over PNP's awful treatment for my country, but I recognize I exceeded myself.
Well, there's no worry from my side needed - this will be my last post on this thread.
After seeing posts such as - 'Color Theory is a theory because it has theory on the name' and actually being applauded for it, I have concluded I have nothing more to add to the discussion.
I hope my 'pseudo-intellectual' essays (not a condescending remark at all by the way) weren't triggering to anyone.
Hopefully, they provided just the right amount of daily tolerable level of toxicity that is allowed on this forum.
Composition in art is NOT an open term. By the way, fashion illustrations and photographies do have composition as well. I'm not gonna give examples because it'll be a waste of time as I've seen these last few days. If I mention the metric aura there will surely be someone says "Metric aura is subjective" "It's personal taste". Won't bother.
And to those members who are sending PMs calling me names: Get a life. This is just a little girls franchise. Yes. Little girls.
I'll have to check my car before getting in just in case there's a bomb......
Honestly guys, the only solution is to just start putting people on ignore. I have done it and it's improved by forum experience a lot. Otherwise these topics are going to be constantly derailed because there is no serious moderation in this forum.
Also, at the end of day, a bunch of anonymous people on a forum might think Naoko is an abomination of an artist and they have every right to, but clearly she must be doing something right if a luxury brand like Chanel is featuring her art.
This is the way to go. I tried to have a discussion in good faith with some of these people, but when you have them trying to act like Takeuchi isn't the creator of Sailor Moon, insisting the manga didn't sell well despite its gazillion reprints, saying she isn't an artist etc etc, it's clear that it is nothing but a waste of time.
It's also ironic that one of them acts like people worship the manga and Takeuchi too much, as well as saying we don't like criticism of the manga, when all that poster does is WORSHIP the 90s anime, and 99% of the time constantly trashes the creator EVERY chance they get. The gaslighting doesn't work on me.
I think they're just bitter that Takeuchi rightfully owns this franchise and doesn't want a continuation because the story is done. Their entitlement has consumed them and they just can't deal.
But too bad. Takeuchi stays winning. She's a millionaire, owns a significant IP, and now is collaborating with one of the most recognized fashion houses in the world. I'm not surprised that triggered some people. But again, these detractors are literally around 5 people on this forum. She doesn't know that they (and even us) exist. They aren't making a negative impact on her in any way so I don't think people should be bothered by what they say. I'm not anymore.
Virginie Viard still needs to prove that she can revolutionize the brand like Karl did.
Visually, I think nothing will ever top the Chanel show held in a supermarket in 2014. Karl was referencing Andy Warhol’s supermarket. In 1965, Andy Warhol, Jasper Johns, Roy Lichtenstein, among others, turned the Bianchini gallery in New York into a supermarket and sold signed fake goods. Pop art at its finest.
I'll give credit to Naoko for using less frequent and more lively poses for some of the characters this time around and not having anything too egregious when it comes to their anatomy and proportions. But the digital textures, props, and backgrounds are doing a huge disservice to her art. It doesn't help that most of the clothes are ugly and don't suit the characters.
So some people are "tired" of hearing negativity. This fandom has always been negative. In the 90's people were negative about the releases of Sailor Moon to the point where the fandom collectively got them banned. But now we're not allowed to continue in the tradition of negativity because it's "unreasonable."
I believe in respect for people you interact with and people of your level. You should respect the person you are in direct communication with, because that person could be affected by your words.
Takeuchi does not post here and will never be affected by any words of ours. That's why she does not deserve any respect.
Since she's going to earn her money and control the franchise regardless of what any of us say, it is fundamentally immoral to lift her up. She's already "up." If anything it's more important to criticize to counter any halo effect that comes from being associated with the franchise. This can also be used to spotlight actual flaws for a more critical, fuller, reading of associate media.
There are other franchises I feel are handled better, but do I say "Kevin Feige must be respected and loved?" No. If someone wants to complain about him, let them complain. Heck, I don't think Kathleen Kennedy is anywhere near the disaster Star Wars fans claim she is and yet I'm not going to demand people "respect" her.
Creators of mass-market fictional works are never to be worshipped. They got their money and they have their success, so why pledge your hearts and throw yourself in front of criticism that will never reach their ears?
@Nadia I feel like 50 - 50 on this. Yes, of course, it's probably wrong if we put Billion Dollar Franchise Creators on a pillar and treat them like Demigods or whatever just because they created those beloved Franchises, but it's equally wrong to constantly harass and insult them if they, for whatever reason, 'suddenly' stop living up to our Expectations. That's a Level of Negativity I, quite frankly, can't live with. It's exactly the kind of Fanboy*girling the Outside World (rightfully?) tends to criticize.
On the other hand (that's the other 50%), those who can't stop nagging about the 'too moe' Character Design, the 'bad' Writing, the pace of Releases and whathaveyounot I seriously CHALLENGE to try their own Luck and prove to me that they can do it any better than all these people who've been active in the Media for Decades. That's all I can say or suggest here...
I’m not really feeling that outfit on Usagi but I do think the picture that someone posted here of the actual model wearing it looked cute. But the one of Rei is actually my absolute favorite from all of these drawings and it’s so, so pretty to me - I’m actually kinda disappointed that it didn’t get its own full page! I wasn’t sure about that dress on Minako also at first but I really ended up coming around to loving the art for her image in particular as well!
Maybe the best thing is to have an open thread where we can discuss the good and bad and also have a near identical thread where people who don't want any negativity can post with a specific rule that only nice things are allowed.
It would probably just be easier to ignore and skip over comments we don't agree on, though and just keep
any ad hominem remarks out of it.
The block function also works beautifully. I use it really sparingly for trolls, bots and people who are aggressively rude, and I've only ever had to use it a few times.
I don't recommend doing it every time someone disagrees with you, though. Some of my favorite people on here have different opinions and help me see things in a different way.
Shutting down every person who has a different view is a sure way to end up in an echo chamber and miss out on things that might end up helping you.
That doesn't mean anyone should have to take dealing with stupid people who try to make personal attacks or continuously try to get you to respond once you've made it clear you're done talking with them, though.
It's okay to disagree, and it's okay when someone won't see your way, too.
I wasn't going to say anything else about this since @MsImagination aptly summarized my stance when she said that I don't want an echo chamber, but I feel like I keep being misinterpreted so it's worth it to make this as clear as possible: in my earlier post, I never said I wanted endless agreement and praise for the series. What I literally said is that I appreciate how in other spaces you can criticize Sailor Moon "without veering into delusional hate" and participate "without getting nonstop condescension and toxicity" and that is what I'm tired of, toxicity.
There are plenty of people in this forum that have opinions contrary to mine in my admittedly short stay here, and a lot of people are critical of Takeuchi or the manga and might be always snarky and trying to look at things from the worst possible angle, but that's all good because you can still talk to them and they can accept different opinions. That's not toxic.
Toxic is when nearly everything you do is repeat the exact same negativity in every topic and when you base your entire online presence on hating something. It's when you hold subjective opinions and treat them as fact without any regard for dissenting ones. It's when you outright bend reality to disqualify people and spread around speculation and conspiracy-tier logic to assert that this franchise isn't really based on a manga by Naoko Takeuchi just because you dislike either the manga or Takeuchi. It's when you act like your hate is fact and when you are condescending towards anyone who disagrees with it.
The majority of this forum isn't like this, most people are perfectly pleasant regardless of their difference in opinion. That behavior comes from about two or three specific posters, one of which, during one of my earliest interactions here, outright forbade me from replying to them when I challenged their "objective" views because I was too ignorant to do so. Hell, wanna know how I was welcomed here? By someone immediately accusing me of being a sock puppet because how else would I have a different opinion.
Finally, "chilling effect" is when something hinders discussion or drives it away, and those posters hinder discussion unless you fall in line and turn the entire thread into a hatefest. You might not get that toxicity aimed at you because you tend to agree with these posters, but in this very topic you have someone basically telling you why they're being driven away from this forum, and I can add my own experience since I also left for over a month: it's because it's impossible to talk about anything when you have a couple people raising a stink every thread over the exact same thing, treating their stink as a fact, and being condescending to anyone who disagrees. And you can't even call this behavior out because then these posters act like they're being victimized (without dropping their condescension, of course).
So nobody wants to censor anyone, it just would be nice to have a community with positive discussion, be it critical or not, instead of whatever this is right now. If you're happy like this it's fine but understand that it's tiresome for a lot of us.
On topic, since I know next to nothing about fashion, I showed the Chanel pictures to someone who works in fashion to see what they think of the collaboration. They told me that they found the images to be a creative way to promote the catalogue, but they thought it had too much background noise and would have preferred if the backgrounds were more faded to allow the clothes to have the spotlight.
I also asked them what they thought about the characters using their weapons/talismans and they told me it gives the images an edge that can be seldom used properly in fashion catalogues, praising Pluto's use of her staff the most. But overall they liked it, as long as they could tune out the backgrounds.
They also told me they really liked Usagi and Chibiusa's matching outfits and that surprised me the most. I guess you need to be into high fashion to appreciate them, lol.
I mean we can blame the fandom for being negative all we want, but I hardly see the kinds of spats that are a regular occurence on this forum happening in reddit, twitter and other spaces. The issue comes down to there being zero moderation here. There are so many discussions that have gone way too far that they clearly even break the forum rules:
c. Don't derail the topic or add drama.
Keep the discussion on-topic; if you see it's drifting away into a derail, please make a new topic or ask a mod to split a thread.
f. Be civil.
✩ Respect other users.
"Calling people out" in public threads is not allowed. Take your disagreements to private PM; insulting another member publicly and starting drama is not acceptable.
✩ Use respectful language.
Do not make racist, homophobic, sexist, or otherwise discriminatory comments; don't joke about rape, violence, or other serious subjects. Don't try to intentionally break the swearfilter either.
And yet they were allowed to continue... Part of why this forum has been so toxic is that with these conversations unchecked, there's been a lot of animosity that's festered between different groups of people. I feel like if the moderators and admins in this forum nipped the conversations in the bud before they got ugly, we wouldn't be in the place we are now...
Not that I'm claiming to be innocent by any means as I have definitely participated in these discussions when I shouldn't have and have copped an attitude. But this has been a long-time problem, and it's been made worse over the years.
Agreed, and look no further than this very thread where they were asked "not to add graphic memes to their posts from now on", and two posts later you get yet another good old graphic meme. It's as if rules just don't apply to them.
Anyway, in more relevant news, Sailor Moon's official website just released a small article about the Chanel collaboration. It doesn't have any pictures and barely any new information, but here it is anyway:
"Magazine 31 rue Cambon
A collaboration illustration between the French luxury brand "CHANEL" and "Pretty Guardian Sailor Moon" was published in "CHANEL MAGAZINE 2023 / SPECIAL ISSUE: 31 RUE CAMBON TOKYO".
Usagi and the characters were drawn by Naoko Takeuchi wearing the "2022/23 Métiers d'Art Collection" . The collection reflects the spirit of the 70s, at the heart of the imagination of CHANEL Artistic Director Virginie Viard.
※ This publication is not for sale."
I found "the spirit of the 70s" bit to be useful when understanding what the clothes are going for.
The dress that Minako is wearing is nearly identical to a Giorgio di Sant’ Angelo dress from the 1970s.
Giorgio di Sant’ Angelo was a student of Pablo Picasso. Picasso encouraged him to work with textiles.
Sant’ Angelo emigrated to the United States… to New York City, where anything can happen. He became a celebrated designer who made himself out of nothing. Elsa Peretti (born in Italy, jewelry designer) started her career making pieces for Sant’ Angelo.