Sailor Moon's successes.

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Slowpokeking

Aurorae Lunares
Apr 1, 2020
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#22
Perhaps because Sailor Moon was finished and Precure turned out to be a bigger and more sustainable success?

Why should Toei be blamed for creating something successfully and continuing to do so?
Precure's quality itself fluctuates between it's season but that has nothing to do with Sailor Moon.

Toei's practice is the same with all of it's series - they throw out a quick, poorly done series for a quick cash grab, then come up with a shorter series or movie of good to slightly above-average quality.
Every series is like that - Precure, Digimon, Saint Seiya, Dragon Ball, One Piece.

You feel that Sailor Moon is 'abused' by Toei simply because thanks to the gran Hime, they are only allowed to adapt the manga, hence Sailor Moon's exploitation - compared to the other ventures Toei does with it's other licenses - is limited.

And we see that process with the Crystermos adaptation as well:
Crystal ! & !! - poor adaptation
Crystal III - more than decent budgeted adaptation for a Toei TV series
Etermos - overall average budgeted movie production suffering greatly from the story of the manga.

Just exactly how did Precure take the focus away from Sailor Moon?
Because Precure was their own franchise.
 

Rika-Chicchi

Staff member
Site Admin
May 7, 2009
47,230
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#23
The success of Sailor Moon is immeasurable at this point.

Even if Precure is THE magical girl franchise nowadays, and makes more money, I just don't think any of its individual series, or characters for that matter will ever be as culturally relevant, and iconic as Sailor Moon in general.

There are 70+ Precures now, yet none of them entered the pop culture, and ended up being as enduring as Sailor Senshi, Sakura Kinomoto, and Madoka Magica characters.

Precure did, hovever end up having the biggest influence on the overall, stereotypical look of your average magical girl.
Like what I said in the past, Sailor Moon has already become a Mickey Mouse-like iconic character nowadays, readily recognizable by the general public/non-fans. :)
 

Akari @ria

Lumen Cinererum
Jun 17, 2017
440
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#24
That was the case long ago during the 2000s and it was all on the 90s anime.
It's the 90s anime that is ingrained in pop culture and not the manga.

And even by the mid-2010s and especially by 2020s, even the 90s anime is behind the times.
New fans will find it as this hidden gem that they'll like for it's aesthetic and some storylines.

For the Crystermos adaptation, it's not. There's nothing to salvage in it and it's not some shoujo aesthetic or god-level animation that's gonna save it.
Today, even the premise of Sailor Moon is kinda done.

At one point, Sailor Moon had a chance of a punchy revival but with the story of the manga - a rushed, most of the time nonsensical story with charmless and bare bones characters - it was never gonna happen.

An adaptation of the manga should have been reserved for the adult fans in the likes of Mahou Tsukai 2 - a surprise gift to the fans and NOT the face of the revival.
I know that it was the 90s anime that exported the series worldwide, I don't doubt it, but the manga in its homeland, at least the first 3 narrative arcs, had their success, there are many people who, after having seen the 90s anime and read the manga, prefer the latter.

And among the new generations of anime viewers there are also those who have seen the 90s anime and did not find it good.

Not only that, there are also those who, having seen the 90s anime, think they have seen everything about the series, that the manga is the same as the 90s anime so it is not worth read it.

This is coming from someone who has heard all sorts of things over the years, for example that my male schoolmates watched the series only for the scenes of veiled nudity in the transformation...

Must the fact that the manga has not had much visibility abroad preclude a properly made animated version? Because your personal tastes are not those of the rest of the world (and not even mine), it is right that each type of fan has the opportunity to see the version they like the most shine, the 90s anime had all the time to shine, but how much visibility with these premises did the manga have?

If Naoko went crazy and made absurd requests so as to have this poor product is another matter, I would like to know all the behind the scenes of the work on this remake by all the parties involved. I just know that I can't help but be disappointed by what they foisted on us.

It's a wasted opportunity to introduce new fans to the work. Even just to introduce them to both the manga and the 90s animated versions, then the viewers will draw conclusions, each for themselves.

Both the 90's anime and the manga have their pros and cons and great potential. As a fan of the manga I prefer the latter, but I don't deny that the version that made me fall in love with the series was the 90's anime, which I still appreciate even though I've always found things that I consider flaws.
 
Jan 23, 2023
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#25
Must the fact that the manga has not had much visibility abroad preclude a properly made animated version? Because your personal tastes are not those of the rest of the world (and not even mine), it is right that each type of fan has the opportunity to see the version they like the most shine, the 90s anime had all the time to shine, but how much visibility with these premises did the manga have?
Yet the rest of the world has clearly stated their taste - they do not like the story and appeal of the manga in anime format.

Why do you think Toei changed the design of Crystal III?
It was to appeal to new fans and the otaku crowd with a design a la Aikatsu - it wasn't to be 'like Precure' - Precure doesn't have sexy bodies.
With Crystal III, Toei tried to replicate the boom that the 90s anime did and again for a Toei 2016 TV Series, it looked more than decent.
And it didn't work.


And that's why they reverted back to the Tadano design because the manga's story doesn't sell.

Eternal was a cheap ploy to sell the return of the '90s anime' as an alternative to the SuperS season.
If I remember correctly, Sailor Moon was airing again during the time Eternal came out in Japan and stopped right at the end of S.
Same thing happened with Stars that was airing during the time Cosmos came out.

The message of Toei is clear - Eternal and Cosmos are sold as alternatives to the 90s anime rather than the manga's adaptation.

The main problem is the story of the manga.
For you, you had already seen and loved the 90s anime and it's characters and hence used it as a reference model when you read the manga, filling in the blanks for the lack of presence of the Inners and Outers.

For someone who is discovering Crystermos 'a froid', why would he even like the characters?
Even if someone likes the design of someone who isn't Sailor Moon, they then discover that their favorite character gets only one time to transform and does nothing. Nobody does anything in the later half of the arcs!
For a newbie, there is nothing that emotionally binds them to follow the adventures of Crystermos because it's devoid of any emotional pull from the characters NOT because of the poor animation.

If Naoko went crazy and made absurd requests so as to have this poor product is another matter, I would like to know all the behind the scenes of the work on this remake by all the parties involved. I just know that I can't help but be disappointed by what they foisted on us.
Takeuchi is credited as supervisor and is promoted as chief supervisor in Cosmos.

What do you think that means?
You blame the director and animators and studio for not giving you the product of your dreams but Takeuchi is also heavily involved in this.
What is her role in all of this - she has her name on it.
Would you change your mind if, for her, it's a very satisfactory rendition of her work?

And let's not fool ourselves, these are the Japanese.
Even if the original mangaka just gives off a random idea, the staff profusely thanks the author for their 'participation'. It's the Japanese business etiquette.
From Takeuchi, it's complete silence.
Not a single person has mentioned having met her, having worked with her or her having helped them in the movies.
Both Kon and Takahashi have said they asked Takeuchi questions over the story and it was Osabu who replied to them.

Not to mention, the whole mess with the dub that caused the studios to re-record lines just because she suddenly decided so.

It's clear that her focus was that all decisions are vetoed by her and hence that means that what Etermos is, represents what she sees as qualificative of the anime version of her manga.
 

kasumigenx

Systema Solare
Feb 8, 2021
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#26
It's a shame that the series was having success outside of Japan and they didn't take this factor into account at all, in fact the anime production companies in Japan mainly look at the domestic market in their own country, at the time they sold the series abroad for little, believing they weren't worth much (which leaves me shocked! The effort put in by the animators is debased by a completely wrong idea) allowing also absurd censorship.
While CLAMP treats its English audience better for their cashcow series except for CCS.
 

kasumigenx

Systema Solare
Feb 8, 2021
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#27
With Crystal III, Toei tried to replicate the boom that the 90s anime did and again for a Toei 2016 TV Series, it looked more than decent.
And it didn't work.


And that's why they reverted back to the Tadano design because the manga's story doesn't sell.
That is what Sakou also wanted as well but she was forced to cave in to what PNP wants.
 
Apr 1, 2020
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#29
Yet the rest of the world has clearly stated their taste - they do not like the story and appeal of the manga in anime format.

Why do you think Toei changed the design of Crystal III?
It was to appeal to new fans and the otaku crowd with a design a la Aikatsu - it wasn't to be 'like Precure' - Precure doesn't have sexy bodies.
With Crystal III, Toei tried to replicate the boom that the 90s anime did and again for a Toei 2016 TV Series, it looked more than decent.
And it didn't work.


And that's why they reverted back to the Tadano design because the manga's story doesn't sell.

Eternal was a cheap ploy to sell the return of the '90s anime' as an alternative to the SuperS season.
If I remember correctly, Sailor Moon was airing again during the time Eternal came out in Japan and stopped right at the end of S.
Same thing happened with Stars that was airing during the time Cosmos came out.

The message of Toei is clear - Eternal and Cosmos are sold as alternatives to the 90s anime rather than the manga's adaptation.

The main problem is the story of the manga.
For you, you had already seen and loved the 90s anime and it's characters and hence used it as a reference model when you read the manga, filling in the blanks for the lack of presence of the Inners and Outers.

For someone who is discovering Crystermos 'a froid', why would he even like the characters?
Even if someone likes the design of someone who isn't Sailor Moon, they then discover that their favorite character gets only one time to transform and does nothing. Nobody does anything in the later half of the arcs!
For a newbie, there is nothing that emotionally binds them to follow the adventures of Crystermos because it's devoid of any emotional pull from the characters NOT because of the poor animation.


Takeuchi is credited as supervisor and is promoted as chief supervisor in Cosmos.

What do you think that means?
You blame the director and animators and studio
for not giving you the product of your dreams but Takeuchi is also heavily involved in this.
What is her role in all of this - she has her name on it.
Would you change your mind if, for her, it's a very satisfactory rendition of her work?

And let's not fool ourselves, these are the Japanese.
Even if the original mangaka just gives off a random idea, the staff profusely thanks the author for their 'participation'. It's the Japanese business etiquette.
From Takeuchi, it's complete silence.
Not a single person has mentioned having met her, having worked with her or her having helped them in the movies.
Both Kon and Takahashi have said they asked Takeuchi questions over the story and it was Osabu who replied to them.

Not to mention, the whole mess with the dub that caused the studios to re-record lines just because she suddenly decided so.

It's clear that her focus was that all decisions are vetoed by her and hence that means that what Etermos is, represents what she sees as qualificative of the anime version of her manga.
To be fair, some characters got good moments like Michiru in the beginning of Cosmos(it was from the manga), which I like it more than the 90s, which always focus on Haruka first.

But overall yeah.

It's not like the 90s anime doesn't have flaw, especially the last 2 seasons, but they need to improve rather than just paste the manga. And some changes were awful like the four kings X Inners ship in season 1.
 
Apr 1, 2020
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#30
The manga gave quite good basic concept of the characters and has serious tone of fighting.

But the anime was able to fill in the blanks to add friendship/characterization, also make it more like a Shonen anime.

Some character obviously didn't go to Naoko's direction and resulted well, like Nephrite and Ami.

Not exactly.

Contrary to what people believe, the viewership didn't have that significant decline during the Asgard arc.
What was likely a factor in it's ending was the failure of the Vintage toys and considering at that time, the Asgard and Poseidon arcs' animation actually got budget increases from the Sanctuary arc, to continue would need yet another, rather long filler arc.
Which would mean backing on even more anime exclusive characters to be a successful toyline along with of course the budget to sustain the fights that the anime would show.

Around the time the manga ended, there were talks about a sequel in the form of OVAs, which Seiji Yokohama even made the OST for and Shingo Araki even made the Cover art of.
However, likely looking at the complete decline of the manga, the production committee probably decided it wasn't worth it as people weren't interested in Saint Seiya anymore.

Toei still believed so during the revival in 2003 with the OVAs hence why despite the good quality of the animation, it's budget wasn't actually that high.
The Asgard saga was actually quite good, Hilda was probably the most well characterized Saint Seiya female character. And all the saints got touching story, it also reflect to the main heroes.

The OVAs were sold well, but after the high quality movie failed, the rest of the Hades Saga was handled with poor budget. Too bad Sailor Moon didn't even get something like the 2003 OVA.
 
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Lady Pen

Aurorae Lunares
Mar 12, 2021
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#31
Yet the rest of the world has clearly stated their taste - they do not like the story and appeal of the manga in anime format.

Why do you think Toei changed the design of Crystal III?
It was to appeal to new fans and the otaku crowd with a design a la Aikatsu - it wasn't to be 'like Precure' - Precure doesn't have sexy bodies.
With Crystal III, Toei tried to replicate the boom that the 90s anime did and again for a Toei 2016 TV Series, it looked more than decent.
And it didn't work.


And that's why they reverted back to the Tadano design because the manga's story doesn't sell.

Eternal was a cheap ploy to sell the return of the '90s anime' as an alternative to the SuperS season.
If I remember correctly, Sailor Moon was airing again during the time Eternal came out in Japan and stopped right at the end of S.
Same thing happened with Stars that was airing during the time Cosmos came out.

The message of Toei is clear - Eternal and Cosmos are sold as alternatives to the 90s anime rather than the manga's adaptation.

The main problem is the story of the manga.
For you, you had already seen and loved the 90s anime and it's characters and hence used it as a reference model when you read the manga, filling in the blanks for the lack of presence of the Inners and Outers.

For someone who is discovering Crystermos 'a froid', why would he even like the characters?
Even if someone likes the design of someone who isn't Sailor Moon, they then discover that their favorite character gets only one time to transform and does nothing. Nobody does anything in the later half of the arcs!
For a newbie, there is nothing that emotionally binds them to follow the adventures of Crystermos because it's devoid of any emotional pull from the characters NOT because of the poor animation.


Takeuchi is credited as supervisor and is promoted as chief supervisor in Cosmos.

What do you think that means?
You blame the director and animators and studio
for not giving you the product of your dreams but Takeuchi is also heavily involved in this.
What is her role in all of this - she has her name on it.
Would you change your mind if, for her, it's a very satisfactory rendition of her work?

And let's not fool ourselves, these are the Japanese.
Even if the original mangaka just gives off a random idea, the staff profusely thanks the author for their 'participation'. It's the Japanese business etiquette.
From Takeuchi, it's complete silence.
Not a single person has mentioned having met her, having worked with her or her having helped them in the movies.
Both Kon and Takahashi have said they asked Takeuchi questions over the story and it was Osabu who replied to them.

Not to mention, the whole mess with the dub that caused the studios to re-record lines just because she suddenly decided so.

It's clear that her focus was that all decisions are vetoed by her and hence that means that what Etermos is, represents what she sees as qualificative of the anime version of her manga.
Well said.

I must highlight this:

Yet the rest of the world has clearly stated their taste - they do not like the story and appeal of the manga in anime format.


What means: General people do NOT like the manga. :sheep:

Manga fans are still living in the 2000's when the manga was cool, edgy, mature and elegant.

Takeuchi didn't know her own desire (Crystermos) would kill the work of her life. :wow:
 
Feb 8, 2021
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#32
Takeuchi didn't know her own desire (Crystermos) would kill the work of her life. :wow:
What Takeuchi and the fans want is an adaptation based on the Materials Collection and the Manga not a 1:1 adaptation which is similar to the Nelke plays, the problem is that TOEI and Takeuchi don't want to compromise just like what happened in Sailor Stars when TOEI scrapped most of Takeuchi's ideas that have been approved already by Igarashi and Osabu.