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Seiya is obviously a lesbian like Haruka though whether she is butch like Haruka or not I can't say. She dresses as a male in the manga and even takes a male form in the 90s anime but both are disguises to make it more acceptable to Earth culture to be in a band singing about searching for a Princess again due to Earth homophobia. What Seiya would actually dress like in her natural form and honestly what her true name is or the true names of the other Three Lights we don't know. That being said I do think that Yaten is heterosexual because I believe it is stated in the Materials Collection she dosen't like women in a sexual way. Taiki on the other hand could be anything.
And how is that even relevant? Meeting Kakyuu (through popularity and media exposure) was the only reason why the Three Lights formed a music band, and Kakyuu knew their true identities anyway. So how changing genders would help them in that single task?
Like, Kakyuu would be listening to radio while on subway, recognizing voice of the Three Lights and thinking, oh, these are my long lost friends, but they are GIRLS, and their band is more popular with MALE AUDIENCE, so I won't answer to their message! I will answer only if they assume fake MALE identities and sing for GIRLS! Because god forbid my landlord or neighbors learn that I once listened on radio to a GIRL BAND, what will they think of me? Scandalous!
Like, Kakyuu would be listening to radio while on subway, recognizing voice of the Three Lights and thinking, oh, these are my long lost friends, but they are GIRLS, and their band is more popular with MALE AUDIENCE, so I won't answer to their message! I will answer only if they assume fake MALE identities and sing for GIRLS! Because god forbid my landlord or neighbors learn that I once listened on radio to a GIRL BAND, what will they think of me? Scandalous!
but in any case , the only one who have the fault here is naoko , since she was the one who created the story.
Maybe , Naoko was thinking , i wanna do male singers characters ,but i also wanna add new sailors...................................................................................................................................................................................OH I KNOW , i will mix up the two ideas , !TADA! , new sailor senshies that are also a male band.
BUT WAIT!!!!!!!! , why did they disguise as male
, i dont know which lame excuse to create now.starts to copy paste the princess search from the season 1
AND HERE IS !!!!!!!!!!!!, they disguise as male cause they want to search for their princess, thats the best excuse that i could create
.I thought that the opinion about the starlights not being trans , was like an impopular opinion among this fandom , but i see that there are many people that also opine the same , what a surprise
.
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kasumigenx
i think personally that Seiya, Taiki, Yaten uses their real names, at least in the manga, because when kakyu appeared, she called them with those names. They didn’t saw each other, since they were on earth. While in the anime, kakyu calls Seiya « fighter »
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SailorStarsFan
The nearest thing that we have , is this drawing made for an artbook , but since it never appeared in the 90s anime , i dont know if consider it canon.
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SailorStarsFan
no, it’s on an original art book
Yaten is the prettiest, her outfit are the most gorgeous of the three, when I will come back from my vacation, I will post it from my computer
Yaten is the prettiest, her outfit are the most gorgeous of the three, when I will come back from my vacation, I will post it from my computer
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SailorStarsFan
he say approximately the same in the original version.
Here’s the dialogues form the original version
Usagi : Seiya, since you're here, do you want to play the servers?
She say this sentence at the same time as she shows him the same waitress dress she wears.
And Seiya reply : Uh... In girl's clothes, meh...
it’s a proof that Usagi see Seiya as a girl since she knows that he is sailor star fighter, she would never ask to mamoru to wear a dress… it’s a proof that on her side, it was only a strong friendship with a deep bond, but people think that she lies, when she say that seiya is only a friend, by people I mean usagi and seiya shipers !!
Why Usagi would lie about her feelings, Usagi was never a liar, and she was always aware about her own feelings; she never hide her emotions to herself or to others. She dared to flirt with Haruka in front of minako, minako even scolded her by reminding her that she had mamoru, and worse, Mamoru was by her side, he had not left the country, poor boy. In the same episode, she even said that Haruka was handsom, in front of Motoki, mamoru’s best friend, Motoki was upset with Usagi; it was obvious in the way he looked at her.
Usagi wanted that the starlights join her team, that’s why she was sad and depressed and Taiki didn’t want and the outer didn’t want them. When she say that seiya is a friend, it’s only because she feels that way…
Here’s the dialogues form the original version
Usagi : Seiya, since you're here, do you want to play the servers?
She say this sentence at the same time as she shows him the same waitress dress she wears.
And Seiya reply : Uh... In girl's clothes, meh...
it’s a proof that Usagi see Seiya as a girl since she knows that he is sailor star fighter, she would never ask to mamoru to wear a dress… it’s a proof that on her side, it was only a strong friendship with a deep bond, but people think that she lies, when she say that seiya is only a friend, by people I mean usagi and seiya shipers !!
Why Usagi would lie about her feelings, Usagi was never a liar, and she was always aware about her own feelings; she never hide her emotions to herself or to others. She dared to flirt with Haruka in front of minako, minako even scolded her by reminding her that she had mamoru, and worse, Mamoru was by her side, he had not left the country, poor boy. In the same episode, she even said that Haruka was handsom, in front of Motoki, mamoru’s best friend, Motoki was upset with Usagi; it was obvious in the way he looked at her.
Usagi wanted that the starlights join her team, that’s why she was sad and depressed and Taiki didn’t want and the outer didn’t want them. When she say that seiya is a friend, it’s only because she feels that way…
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Interesting.................................So in the latin dub they somehow made clearer that seiya doesnt likes women clothes , i would like to see myself the true original version , since in the video i saw seiya didnt replied that , he just said , i dont feel like to.
I will start to talk in headcanon mode , since here since i dont wanna start controversy , but i think that if seiya really doesnt likes women clothes , that would mean that she doesnt likes her sailor uniform since is girly , she just wears it for obligation , but if she would have more clothe liberty , like civil haruke , then she would dress as a male , and not for some rescue princess stuff but because she really likes to.
and in that case i could consider seiya a trans man....................................but only seiya , not yaten or taiki.
but that would be just a headcanon based on that line , i am not saying that you should have the same opinion as me
.
I will start to talk in headcanon mode , since here since i dont wanna start controversy , but i think that if seiya really doesnt likes women clothes , that would mean that she doesnt likes her sailor uniform since is girly , she just wears it for obligation , but if she would have more clothe liberty , like civil haruke , then she would dress as a male , and not for some rescue princess stuff but because she really likes to.
and in that case i could consider seiya a trans man....................................but only seiya , not yaten or taiki.
but that would be just a headcanon based on that line , i am not saying that you should have the same opinion as me
.
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SailorStarsFan
i take screenshot from the original version, I can’t post pictures right now, I will do it when I will come back from my vacation.
‘the dialogues I posted are from the original version… I copy and past the dialogues and I copy and past here.
in all versions with substitute Seiya says exactly the same. Since I’m fluent in French and English, I watched the two versions, my husband who is Japanese told me that seiya said that
« I don't really want to wear girl clothes.. »
The meaning is exactly the same…
i think that seiya wanted to act more manly for usagi, as a woman « he » thinks that he will be even less chances to have her, that's why he was depressed to leave Seiya's appearance! He is so disrespectful towards that poor Mamoru.
I have the material collection in Japanese and my husband translate it for me… Seiya is described as a person who smiles little, despite a cool attitude, who often quarrels and is often angry! I hate him more, because In addition to being an horrible character, he has anger issues ! Usagi will never be happy with someone who has anger issues… she needs a men who is quiet and calm, like Mamoru, because she’s highly emotional. High emotional people irritate people who have anger issues.
A relationship with seiya will be tumultuous, stormy, toxic and problematic, plus he’s a womanizer, while she have a stable and healthy relationship with Mamoru ! Those who says that Seiya would be better for Usagi than Mamoru, needs some serious therapy
‘the dialogues I posted are from the original version… I copy and past the dialogues and I copy and past here.
in all versions with substitute Seiya says exactly the same. Since I’m fluent in French and English, I watched the two versions, my husband who is Japanese told me that seiya said that
« I don't really want to wear girl clothes.. »
The meaning is exactly the same…
i think that seiya wanted to act more manly for usagi, as a woman « he » thinks that he will be even less chances to have her, that's why he was depressed to leave Seiya's appearance! He is so disrespectful towards that poor Mamoru.
I have the material collection in Japanese and my husband translate it for me… Seiya is described as a person who smiles little, despite a cool attitude, who often quarrels and is often angry! I hate him more, because In addition to being an horrible character, he has anger issues ! Usagi will never be happy with someone who has anger issues… she needs a men who is quiet and calm, like Mamoru, because she’s highly emotional. High emotional people irritate people who have anger issues.
A relationship with seiya will be tumultuous, stormy, toxic and problematic, plus he’s a womanizer, while she have a stable and healthy relationship with Mamoru ! Those who says that Seiya would be better for Usagi than Mamoru, needs some serious therapy
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SailorStarsFan
i totally agree with you !
But I have a picture made by naoko
Seiya wears a crop top and a shorts ( feminine outfit) I think that is ‘anime Seiyaˋ who don’t like to dress like a woman…
But I have a picture made by naoko
Seiya wears a crop top and a shorts ( feminine outfit) I think that is ‘anime Seiyaˋ who don’t like to dress like a woman…
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SailorStarsFan
Interesting.................................So in the latin dub they somehow made clearer that seiya doesnt likes women clothes , i would like to see myself the true original version , since in the video i saw seiya didnt replied that , he just said , i dont feel like to.
I will start to talk in headcanon mode , since here since i dont wanna start controversy , but i think that if seiya really doesnt likes women clothes , that would mean that she doesnt likes her sailor uniform since is girly , she just wears it for obligation , but if she would have more clothe liberty , like civil haruke , then she would dress as a male , and not for some rescue princess stuff but because she really likes to.
and in that case i could consider seiya a trans man....................................but only seiya , not yaten or taiki.
but that would be just a headcanon based on that line , i am not saying that you should have the same opinion as me.
I will start to talk in headcanon mode , since here since i dont wanna start controversy , but i think that if seiya really doesnt likes women clothes , that would mean that she doesnt likes her sailor uniform since is girly , she just wears it for obligation , but if she would have more clothe liberty , like civil haruke , then she would dress as a male , and not for some rescue princess stuff but because she really likes to.
and in that case i could consider seiya a trans man....................................but only seiya , not yaten or taiki.
but that would be just a headcanon based on that line , i am not saying that you should have the same opinion as me
.
or maybe anime seiya don’t like women’s clothes ? It seems that she enjoyed to be a « man »
By the way we don’t even know how they dress in their planet… if the clothes are the same as on the earth. Maybe on their planets, woman dresses like men and men dresses like woman. We don’t know anything, about how they live in their planet. Naoko should have made a side story on them, and a side story for michiru, haruka and Setsuna in the time of the silver millennium. There is too much of mysteries in the sailor moon universe.
By the way we don’t even know how they dress in their planet… if the clothes are the same as on the earth. Maybe on their planets, woman dresses like men and men dresses like woman. We don’t know anything, about how they live in their planet. Naoko should have made a side story on them, and a side story for michiru, haruka and Setsuna in the time of the silver millennium. There is too much of mysteries in the sailor moon universe.
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SailorStarsFan
Yes.that might be true.
it would be strange for his fangirls to see him in a woman dress , so maybe he said it for that.
anyways i think that there could have had been a way to show us than seiya likes men clothe without the need of any dialogue , at the 200 episode where the inners are saying goodbye to the starlight at the roof of the school , yaten and taiki could have had wore women clothes or been already in their starligths form , (since they have had already found their princess i dont get why they still wear men clothes) and seiya would have had been the only one wearing men clothes until he would got to teletransport.
a scene like that would have had showed us that even if no princess would have had been lost , seiya would have had still choosed to use a male appearence by being in civil form.
but however that didnt happen , so i doesnt have any bases or proves to say that seiya is trans , but reading the comment of this thread were entertaining and surprising.
i will mantain the trans seiya just as a headcanon , since there is no Real source that would say that his 90s version is transgender.
it would be strange for his fangirls to see him in a woman dress , so maybe he said it for that.
anyways i think that there could have had been a way to show us than seiya likes men clothe without the need of any dialogue , at the 200 episode where the inners are saying goodbye to the starlight at the roof of the school , yaten and taiki could have had wore women clothes or been already in their starligths form , (since they have had already found their princess i dont get why they still wear men clothes) and seiya would have had been the only one wearing men clothes until he would got to teletransport.
a scene like that would have had showed us that even if no princess would have had been lost , seiya would have had still choosed to use a male appearence by being in civil form.
but however that didnt happen , so i doesnt have any bases or proves to say that seiya is trans , but reading the comment of this thread were entertaining and surprising.
i will mantain the trans seiya just as a headcanon , since there is no Real source that would say that his 90s version is transgender.
The real reason isn't that deep, certainly not trying to progressive or make some big statement.
Naoko loves Takarazuka, the female theatre troupe that play all parts.
This is why Uranus dresses as a man, Naoko has said this herself.
This is why the Starlights dress as men, even though plot wise it is extraneous for them to even do so.
It was her thing in the 90s. It still is her thing.
That's why all of the characters in the current musicals are played by women like an old Kabuki women's theatre.
I don't think that Naoko Takeuchi is some progressive beacon or was ever trying to be one. She likes what she likes.
I also don't think that makes her transphobic or necessarily a fetishist for lgbtqwhatevertherestistoday.
She could have leaned into it one way or another with Crystal and the manga updates and she didn't.
It's fair to analyze her views and hidden meanings,
and I can understand why someone trans would associate the Starlights/Haruka with (mostly) positive trans representation...
but I think there's not that much to find looking deeper, unless she ever comes out and says so.What she has said:
Haruka & Michiru are both female and lovers.
The Starlights are female, crossdressing as men.
The anime Starlights are more complicated but as Kakyu's surprise shows, they are not male bodied, they are women using magic to disguise as men, wider shoulders, pecs and all.
Seiya is almost definitely a lesbian, but whether they would count is trans is debatable since the anime doesn't even question the gender swapping.
Naoko loves Takarazuka, the female theatre troupe that play all parts.
This is why Uranus dresses as a man, Naoko has said this herself.
This is why the Starlights dress as men, even though plot wise it is extraneous for them to even do so.
It was her thing in the 90s. It still is her thing.
That's why all of the characters in the current musicals are played by women like an old Kabuki women's theatre.
I don't think that Naoko Takeuchi is some progressive beacon or was ever trying to be one. She likes what she likes.
I also don't think that makes her transphobic or necessarily a fetishist for lgbtqwhatevertherestistoday.
She could have leaned into it one way or another with Crystal and the manga updates and she didn't.
It's fair to analyze her views and hidden meanings,
and I can understand why someone trans would associate the Starlights/Haruka with (mostly) positive trans representation...
but I think there's not that much to find looking deeper, unless she ever comes out and says so.What she has said:
Haruka & Michiru are both female and lovers.
The Starlights are female, crossdressing as men.
The anime Starlights are more complicated but as Kakyu's surprise shows, they are not male bodied, they are women using magic to disguise as men, wider shoulders, pecs and all.
Seiya is almost definitely a lesbian, but whether they would count is trans is debatable since the anime doesn't even question the gender swapping.
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Medical use the terms transexuality, because it’s a transformation actually, the gender is changed with surgery. So yes, we can call that the ‘anime´ starlights are transexual, since they transform themselves with magic. Changing gender with surgery or magic, or water ( like Ranma Saotome) or something else, is called transformation, so yes, this can be called transexuality as well.
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SailorStarsFan
Yeah , thats why i said headcanon , for me headcanon and canon are like reality and fiction , headcanon is fiction meanwhile canon is reality , i know how to differenciate each other.
cannonically speaking i will always say that seiya is just a lesbian , just as i have said before , my opinion havent changed.
i understand that a headcanon is something that just exists in my head , and not in the canon of the 90s sailormoon.
Searching for older threads in this forum , i have found that there have had been people that have called the starlights , gender fluid.
Is Naoko's Stance on the Starlights Transphobic?
nobody seemed to contradict the user that called the starlights as gender fluids, except maria tenebre , since it seemed to be the most popular opinion by da time,2016, but judging by the responses in this thread , 2024 , it seems like with the pass of the time the people have realized that the starlights doesnt really fit into that .
i just found that interesting........................
I will repeat it again , if the starlights would have had changed to male bodies because they would have had wanted to , or because they would fell male bodies more comfortable , then they would have had been canonically trans.
but in the context in which they are , they simply transformed into men due to the princess stuff , so once they got to return to knmoku , no more men bodies, they did their male transformations for obligation and not because they have had really liked to.
sorry if i hypped so much for that single seiya line where he rejected the girl clothes...................i thought that it could mean something but nope.
cannonically speaking i will always say that seiya is just a lesbian , just as i have said before , my opinion havent changed
.i understand that a headcanon is something that just exists in my head , and not in the canon of the 90s sailormoon.
Searching for older threads in this forum , i have found that there have had been people that have called the starlights , gender fluid.
Is Naoko's Stance on the Starlights Transphobic?
nobody seemed to contradict the user that called the starlights as gender fluids, except maria tenebre , since it seemed to be the most popular opinion by da time,2016, but judging by the responses in this thread , 2024 , it seems like with the pass of the time the people have realized that the starlights doesnt really fit into that .
i just found that interesting........................
I will repeat it again , if the starlights would have had changed to male bodies because they would have had wanted to , or because they would fell male bodies more comfortable , then they would have had been canonically trans.
but in the context in which they are , they simply transformed into men due to the princess stuff , so once they got to return to knmoku , no more men bodies, they did their male transformations for obligation and not because they have had really liked to.
sorry if i hypped so much for that single seiya line where he rejected the girl clothes...................i thought that it could mean something but nope.
I havent watched ranma , but i cant call him trans neither.
i understand that he falled into water , and then he got transformed into a girl , but that was just an accident , he didnt planned to transform into a girl using that water on purpose , cause if that would have had been the case then he would have had been a real trans.
but he didnt planned that , he just kept transforming into a girl against his will , cause he is under a spell , or something like that.
and the author said that she made ranma like that , just because she wanted to have both male and female audience.
back to topic , if ranma would have had tranformed into a girl becasue he would have had really wanted to , then he would have had been trans , but thats not the case.
i understand that he falled into water , and then he got transformed into a girl , but that was just an accident , he didnt planned to transform into a girl using that water on purpose , cause if that would have had been the case then he would have had been a real trans.
but he didnt planned that , he just kept transforming into a girl against his will , cause he is under a spell , or something like that.
and the author said that she made ranma like that , just because she wanted to have both male and female audience.
back to topic , if ranma would have had tranformed into a girl becasue he would have had really wanted to , then he would have had been trans , but thats not the case.
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SailorStarsFan