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Since multiple poster keep bringing this one up. I hate to break it some of you but the 97 Cinderella movie is in fact a remake. Just not of the Disney cartoon movie
Cinderella (TV Movie 1957) - IMDb
And just to drive it home
Just like Brandy looks like Julie Andrews
Just like Eddie Murphy looks like Jerry Lewis
Just like Michael Keaton looks like any version of Batman beforehand in comics, animation, or Adam West
Just like the tall and conventionally handsome Hugh Jackman looks like the short and ugly Wolverine from the comics
Hopefully you get where I'm going with this.
What would this forum be without false equivalences?
Black Panther is suppose to be an African King from a fictional country free of colonization
The Little Mermaid is just a half fish woman who lives under water. Ya know that thing that compromises 70 percent of the earth?
There is a reason for Black Panther to be only played by a black actor. There is no reason Ariel needs to be played by any specific race. And don't give me that faithfulness to the source material crap unless you're going to suddenly disown the 97 Brandy Cinderella movie now too
Don't get me wrong given Disney's track record the chances of the Little Mermaid remake being absolute garbage is 99.9999999 percent likely. But it's not going to be because of Halle Bailey
Cinderella (TV Movie 1957) - IMDb
And just to drive it home
Just like Brandy looks like Julie Andrews
Just like Eddie Murphy looks like Jerry Lewis
Just like Michael Keaton looks like any version of Batman beforehand in comics, animation, or Adam West
Just like the tall and conventionally handsome Hugh Jackman looks like the short and ugly Wolverine from the comics
Hopefully you get where I'm going with this.
What would this forum be without false equivalences?
Black Panther is suppose to be an African King from a fictional country free of colonization
The Little Mermaid is just a half fish woman who lives under water. Ya know that thing that compromises 70 percent of the earth?
There is a reason for Black Panther to be only played by a black actor. There is no reason Ariel needs to be played by any specific race. And don't give me that faithfulness to the source material crap unless you're going to suddenly disown the 97 Brandy Cinderella movie now too
Don't get me wrong given Disney's track record the chances of the Little Mermaid remake being absolute garbage is 99.9999999 percent likely. But it's not going to be because of Halle Bailey
Likes:
Star Angel Haruki and Clow
Naoko while driving back home in her Ferrari: I thought Mr.Mickey mouse was nice...
But honestly, what would happen with a Disney Sailor Moon is probably what happened with Winx Club - namely season 6-8.
While the characters would not be race-swapped, their skin tones would be excessively white and they'd act as the typical California girl.
They'll be fashion crazy, overly girly and childish and all connotations to mature themes such as Minako's desire for promiscuity or Rei's religious background would be omitted.
The Shintenno would probably be rewritten as redeemable characters that become the forever boyfriends of the Inners.
They'd surely transform into Senshi - aka Sailor Nep, Sailor Zoi, Sailor Jei and Sailor Kun and the only arc they'd have is endless bickering with their female counterpart
And, of course then Naoko would spend the rest of her life suing Disney.
But honestly, what would happen with a Disney Sailor Moon is probably what happened with Winx Club - namely season 6-8.
While the characters would not be race-swapped, their skin tones would be excessively white and they'd act as the typical California girl.
They'll be fashion crazy, overly girly and childish and all connotations to mature themes such as Minako's desire for promiscuity or Rei's religious background would be omitted.
The Shintenno would probably be rewritten as redeemable characters that become the forever boyfriends of the Inners.
They'd surely transform into Senshi - aka Sailor Nep, Sailor Zoi, Sailor Jei and Sailor Kun and the only arc they'd have is endless bickering with their female counterpart
And, of course then Naoko would spend the rest of her life suing Disney.
On a second thought…
Disney has always been internationally diverse, especially as of lately. “Encanto“ (2021) takes place in Colombia and Disney made sure that the Colombian release would have famous Colombian actors and singers dubbing the characters.
”Coco” (2017) followed the same formula as “Encanto:” characters with Spanish names, famous Mexican actors dubbing the characters, a Mexican actor (Gael García Bernal” dubbing his character in both Spanish and English.
If Disney got the rights to the “Sailor Moon” franchise, I believe they would honor the character’s original names, use honorifics, and do to “Sailor Moon” what they did to “Encanto” and “Coco.”
Of course, I would be surprised if Naoko accepted an offer from a studio in Hollywood, even if it’s Disney. She already said she declined a movie deal.
Disney has always been internationally diverse, especially as of lately. “Encanto“ (2021) takes place in Colombia and Disney made sure that the Colombian release would have famous Colombian actors and singers dubbing the characters.
”Coco” (2017) followed the same formula as “Encanto:” characters with Spanish names, famous Mexican actors dubbing the characters, a Mexican actor (Gael García Bernal” dubbing his character in both Spanish and English.
If Disney got the rights to the “Sailor Moon” franchise, I believe they would honor the character’s original names, use honorifics, and do to “Sailor Moon” what they did to “Encanto” and “Coco.”
Of course, I would be surprised if Naoko accepted an offer from a studio in Hollywood, even if it’s Disney. She already said she declined a movie deal.
If Disney ever did a 'good' adaptation of Sailor Moon, it'd probably be in the likes of Lolirock in which Disney was a producer.
It still had a target audience of 6-12 yr old girls (like 90s Sailor Moon) and it was actually very well done with good animation and music.
However no way Disney would go and make a 'mature/serious' Sailor Moon in the art style of Cinderella or Sleeping Beauty.
It still had a target audience of 6-12 yr old girls (like 90s Sailor Moon) and it was actually very well done with good animation and music.
However no way Disney would go and make a 'mature/serious' Sailor Moon in the art style of Cinderella or Sleeping Beauty.
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Likes:
HappyMoon
No [BLEEP], Sherlock.
Are you pretending you didn't understand what I was talking about? You, me, and everyone else know very well that no characters in Sailor Moon series look anywhere close to what Disney's diversity department would recognize as ethnically Asian. The hell will freeze over sooner than Disney will let any typical anime girl to pass as their new princess.
Are you pretending you didn't understand what I was talking about? You, me, and everyone else know very well that no characters in Sailor Moon series look anywhere close to what Disney's diversity department would recognize as ethnically Asian. The hell will freeze over sooner than Disney will let any typical anime girl to pass as their new princess.
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Likes:
Masquerade
This actually is a pretty good example and they move very nice. The music is also pretty nice. Ive heard of this but I have never seen it really. Sailor Moon could work on this style quite nicely actually in my opinion.
Now beauty is subjective. I can't actually tell other people what they should find beautiful. However, I and several other people find nothing wrong with her looks, so I was speaking from how I see her. I really don't see anything wrong with her. Her skin looks flawless, her hair looks luscious
She doesn't look like the Ariel I grew up with but that's fine. I'm an adult now. Her skin tone isn't what made me like her and she isn't defined by her skin tone either. I wouldn't care if they made her Southeast Asian or Irish. I'd still call her beautiful and Ariel if I saw that.
This is not directed toward the poster but some people are really all over the place with their hatred for darker skin. While there are good reasons to be skeptical about the movie's success, Ive seen peoples' only reason for calling the film trash was because of Ariel's skin color. That's pretty weird...but go off.
I also wish someone would explain exactly what "political agenda" Disney has to gain? The issues with race and sexuality have been a thing since the beginning of time and not surprising, and (judging by some of the negative responses on social media) that isn't changing anytime soon.
Well, BP superhero identity is tied to his race. It's who he represents. He is also a human being, a African man. He represents African people and the Afro-centric experience/culture.
Ariel is just a mermaid which is why her "skin tone" or "race" don't matter to the story. There is no parallel between the American version of The Little Mermaid and her skin tone. She's a half-woman, half-fish sea creature who can sing in the Disney version.
She doesn't have to look like her animated counterpoint if Disney doesn't want her to either because it's their creation. They own the property and can change it how they like. Some of the blame goes to the people as well, assuming Ariel's character is supposed to a specific "race" or skin color.
Also, the New Little Mermaid from what I've seen is also taking some liberties (I think this is what people might mean by agenda?)
New songs and gearing the story in a slightly different direction. They said they are changing things that were "problematic" in the original version.
I also grew up in the 90's too and while there are bits and pieces of Black female characters who were not angry..in general, the Sistas with Attitude was always more prevalent. It still is today too. The Black female characters are often "sassy and tough" Not very many of them are feminine and reserved.
We are showing more diversity in media now and not everyone is too thrilled to see that (for obvious reasons....) but the "angry black woman or sassy girl who will put you in your place" was always there...even if it was subtle.
As far as Power Rangers, I love the show but how long did it take to get a Black, Pink Ranger...Like 22 seasons but that's irrelevant and a different convo.
Now I love me some Power Rangers, and though I don't watch very much of it, I do like and I am familiar with Super Sentai.
As far as Sailor Moon.. I would not be bothered in the slightest if the girls represented different countries. I just don't see it as an issue. If they were to become Westernized that would just be like another alternate version of Sailor Moon for me to watch. Whether that version would be good depends on several things.
I can say honestly what would happen if Disney got their hands on it but I don't want to automatically doom it either since the people who have it now aren't doing too much spectacular with it..lol
Now beauty is subjective. I can't actually tell other people what they should find beautiful. However, I and several other people find nothing wrong with her looks, so I was speaking from how I see her. I really don't see anything wrong with her. Her skin looks flawless, her hair looks luscious
She doesn't look like the Ariel I grew up with but that's fine. I'm an adult now. Her skin tone isn't what made me like her and she isn't defined by her skin tone either. I wouldn't care if they made her Southeast Asian or Irish. I'd still call her beautiful and Ariel if I saw that.
This is not directed toward the poster but some people are really all over the place with their hatred for darker skin. While there are good reasons to be skeptical about the movie's success, Ive seen peoples' only reason for calling the film trash was because of Ariel's skin color. That's pretty weird...but go off.
I also wish someone would explain exactly what "political agenda" Disney has to gain? The issues with race and sexuality have been a thing since the beginning of time and not surprising, and (judging by some of the negative responses on social media) that isn't changing anytime soon.
Well, BP superhero identity is tied to his race. It's who he represents. He is also a human being, a African man. He represents African people and the Afro-centric experience/culture.
Ariel is just a mermaid which is why her "skin tone" or "race" don't matter to the story. There is no parallel between the American version of The Little Mermaid and her skin tone. She's a half-woman, half-fish sea creature who can sing in the Disney version.
She doesn't have to look like her animated counterpoint if Disney doesn't want her to either because it's their creation. They own the property and can change it how they like. Some of the blame goes to the people as well, assuming Ariel's character is supposed to a specific "race" or skin color.
Also, the New Little Mermaid from what I've seen is also taking some liberties (I think this is what people might mean by agenda?)
New songs and gearing the story in a slightly different direction. They said they are changing things that were "problematic" in the original version.
I also grew up in the 90's too and while there are bits and pieces of Black female characters who were not angry..in general, the Sistas with Attitude was always more prevalent. It still is today too. The Black female characters are often "sassy and tough" Not very many of them are feminine and reserved.
We are showing more diversity in media now and not everyone is too thrilled to see that (for obvious reasons....) but the "angry black woman or sassy girl who will put you in your place" was always there...even if it was subtle.
As far as Power Rangers, I love the show but how long did it take to get a Black, Pink Ranger...Like 22 seasons but that's irrelevant and a different convo.
Now I love me some Power Rangers, and though I don't watch very much of it, I do like and I am familiar with Super Sentai.
As far as Sailor Moon.. I would not be bothered in the slightest if the girls represented different countries. I just don't see it as an issue. If they were to become Westernized that would just be like another alternate version of Sailor Moon for me to watch. Whether that version would be good depends on several things.
I can say honestly what would happen if Disney got their hands on it but I don't want to automatically doom it either since the people who have it now aren't doing too much spectacular with it..lol
Likes:
ChampionOfNuggets
Lolirock is a French anime-inspired cartoon. The creator has said to have taken inspiration from both Sailor Moon and Precure - the girls fight both hand to hand and with their magic items. The fights are also pretty dynamic too.
Now, Marathon Media which made Lolirock has produced a lot of anime-inspired cartoons that are very good - Totally Spies, Martin Mystery, Team Galaxy, Redakai etc.
I doubt if a US-based studio took the franchise, it'd be the same.
Lolirock is pretty much an original western version of Precure.
Now, Marathon Media which made Lolirock has produced a lot of anime-inspired cartoons that are very good - Totally Spies, Martin Mystery, Team Galaxy, Redakai etc.
I doubt if a US-based studio took the franchise, it'd be the same.
Lolirock is pretty much an original western version of Precure.
Likes:
HappyMoon and MsImagination
Speaking of Sailor Moon-inspired cartoon, I fondly remember the time when Winx Club was actually a thing and was good... until Rainbow sold their souls to the devil and Nickelodeon ruined the show.
Character design-wise, it's what a Sailor Moon Disney show would look like.
Some concepts art of Fairy Forms of the girls (namely the aborted designs of Enchantix and Sirenix) are breath-taking!
Character design-wise, it's what a Sailor Moon Disney show would look like.
Some concepts art of Fairy Forms of the girls (namely the aborted designs of Enchantix and Sirenix) are breath-taking!
Likes:
Masquerade
This has me wondering if there is a fairy equivalent of a Sailor Senshi in the Galaxy somewhere in the Sailor Moon universe. If there is a Sailor Mermaid, I wonder if there are other Senshi in the Universe that represent thing like fae with attacks like Firefly Explosion or Glitter Flash?
From the future series that do come up, if I'm still living, I'd like to see them meet more Sailor Senshi, who are either fleeing their planet or ask the Solar assistance and some of the Sailor Senshi take separate missions on these planets.
From the future series that do come up, if I'm still living, I'd like to see them meet more Sailor Senshi, who are either fleeing their planet or ask the Solar assistance and some of the Sailor Senshi take separate missions on these planets.
She doesn't look like the mermaid in the tale, which was made clear that she got "fair skin and blue eyes".
If they want a black princess, they are free to make one. Why insert it into existing story?
If they want a black princess, they are free to make one. Why insert it into existing story?
Likes:
MsImagination
Not only that but there was a long period of time when there was no black female Ranger at all. Before Dino Charge (in 2015) the last black female Ranger was from Time Force in 2001.
Power Rangers can be somewhat progressive in some ways and oddly regressive in other ways (the character of Trini is just a hodgepodge of East Asian stereotypes , the very Japanese Samurai had a white lead, the kung fu themed Jungle Fury had the whitest cast of the entire franchise)
If it's an American Hollywood remake I don't see why you wouldn't invoke color blind casting.
It couldn't be because Halle Bailey was the best actress for the job right? And maybe just maybe the role was open to any actress of any race who was good enough for the part.
Rob Marshall on The Little Mermaid casting backlash, says Halle Bailey was hired with "no agenda"
But no a black actress couldn't POSSIBLY have been hired by own credentials. Had to be the [insert whatever conservatives have told me I'm suppose to be scared about this week] agenda
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I think the issue with Little Mermaid was because she is widely recognized for being a redhead... If she was just another blonde princess, nobody would mind a unfaithful casting for a live-action version.
The Winx Club live-action was disliked, but they showed some respect to the source material while casting the leads and didn't get bashed in that aspect.
The Winx Club live-action was disliked, but they showed some respect to the source material while casting the leads and didn't get bashed in that aspect.
Likes:
MsImagination
Remember, The Disney version is an adaptation of a public domain work meaning anyone can do what they want with those characters mentioned in that story (as they have for many years).
The mermaid also dies in the first original tale but Disney took liberties to alter that as they saw fit. In fact, that altered a lot. They placed a lot of American sensibilities into a Danish work that, although had a valuable lesson, was pretty bleak.
Several Disney fans don't even acknowledge Hans' version and think the Disney version is the original. Even if you tell them otherwise. They will say they want the original and question why was this or that changed from the cartoon, completely throwing the book under the bus, but they aren't ready for the real story, dumped and depressed Ariel drying up into seafoam on the shore.
So Disney's version is not the "original" version, it is an adaptation THEY created and it is THEIR work they trademarked, which means THEY can do whatever they want with any character in their extensive library.
This is what happened with Winnie the Pooh. Though people were crying about it, Winnie was made into a mess of a slasher/killer horror film. However, the makers of that film could do that since the original Winnie the Pooh story was in the public domain. Anyone can still do what they want with the original characters. However, they can not use the same Winnie that Disney modified for their own films as it is trademarked by Disney and Disney will sue them faster than Silent Glaive Surprise can take out the Earth.
However, if Disney one day decided, (though they probably never will) that Winnie should be a white Polar Bear, they could do that.
Lots of creators insert things into existing stories because they can. Manga Sailor Moon can make people think of much older works like a powered up Cinderella wearing Romeo and Juliet bracelets...
In the anime, Doom Tree arc is very similar to Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden story in religious literature. There's even an episode in that arc in which the characters emulate a Snow White play.
Once again, it's important to note that these adapted characters belong to Disney. They are copyrighted and trademarked to Disney, so they can change it anyway they like. It is really is their story. Also, the actress was chosen because of her talent and skill for the role.
While I have seen people object to her I haven't seen them offer not one alternative that could beat her vocally for the role. They simply don't want her because of the skin color which is kinda weird because Ariel's skin doesn't make her unique, it's her voice. Ursula wasn't trying to steal her complexion...
The most important thing to remember is, Her skin color is irrelevant to Disney because it's not a factor in their version of the story. Not only that, this isn't a remake of the Little Mermaid, it's a reimagining. It doesn't invalidate the original cartoon version in anyway nor does it destroy the very first tale legacy either.
It's definitely mostly cause she's of African descent ("Black"). While I have seen people make mention of her hair color which is similar to Mako's almost btw. There are MANY people who have brought her skin color to the forefront. It's the main argument.
When they see how talented the actress is they start attacking other aspects of the movie, finding other reasons to invalidate it, or giving backhanded compliments.
"This movie looks too dark? Why is this ONE specific scene so dark?" (Scene takes place during a storm or when Ariel is in a darker part of the ocean like Ursula's liar.)
"I'm going just for Ursula. She is going to save the movie." (Intentionally not acknowledging Ariel, the star of the movie, played by a person with African features, but shifting everything to the villain played by a white woman reinstating they will never accept "that kind" of Ariel.) This isa common way some racist people show hostility towards darker skin people, they don't acknowledge their worth or try to make them feel uncomfortable by staring like they are looking at some kind of unknown creature.
"Disney is pandering to Black people."
Disney "panders" to everyone. Every story they've adapted has been watered down and altered in some way, including those Marvel films.
"Disney is too woke now..."
Disney started off quite a racist company, like many other business in the early part of the century. They are more inclusive now even though they still do make goofy decisions sometimes. I think an issue with SOME people is that they don't want to be reminded that times have changed and what was once held in a dark corner is not so much anymore.
It's usually the older racist people who gripe but these same people teach that same stupid knowledge about skin color to their offspring and the cycle continues and they feel like their skin color grants them some sort of superior status.
I don't even need to mention Namor being "too dark" for Latin America.
Sailor Moon needs to do a quick Moon Healing Escalation for Colorism across the globe.
The mermaid also dies in the first original tale but Disney took liberties to alter that as they saw fit. In fact, that altered a lot. They placed a lot of American sensibilities into a Danish work that, although had a valuable lesson, was pretty bleak.
Several Disney fans don't even acknowledge Hans' version and think the Disney version is the original. Even if you tell them otherwise. They will say they want the original and question why was this or that changed from the cartoon, completely throwing the book under the bus, but they aren't ready for the real story, dumped and depressed Ariel drying up into seafoam on the shore.
So Disney's version is not the "original" version, it is an adaptation THEY created and it is THEIR work they trademarked, which means THEY can do whatever they want with any character in their extensive library.
This is what happened with Winnie the Pooh. Though people were crying about it, Winnie was made into a mess of a slasher/killer horror film. However, the makers of that film could do that since the original Winnie the Pooh story was in the public domain. Anyone can still do what they want with the original characters. However, they can not use the same Winnie that Disney modified for their own films as it is trademarked by Disney and Disney will sue them faster than Silent Glaive Surprise can take out the Earth.
However, if Disney one day decided, (though they probably never will) that Winnie should be a white Polar Bear, they could do that.
Lots of creators insert things into existing stories because they can. Manga Sailor Moon can make people think of much older works like a powered up Cinderella wearing Romeo and Juliet bracelets...
In the anime, Doom Tree arc is very similar to Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden story in religious literature. There's even an episode in that arc in which the characters emulate a Snow White play.
Once again, it's important to note that these adapted characters belong to Disney. They are copyrighted and trademarked to Disney, so they can change it anyway they like. It is really is their story. Also, the actress was chosen because of her talent and skill for the role.
While I have seen people object to her I haven't seen them offer not one alternative that could beat her vocally for the role. They simply don't want her because of the skin color which is kinda weird because Ariel's skin doesn't make her unique, it's her voice. Ursula wasn't trying to steal her complexion...
The most important thing to remember is, Her skin color is irrelevant to Disney because it's not a factor in their version of the story. Not only that, this isn't a remake of the Little Mermaid, it's a reimagining. It doesn't invalidate the original cartoon version in anyway nor does it destroy the very first tale legacy either.
It's definitely mostly cause she's of African descent ("Black"). While I have seen people make mention of her hair color which is similar to Mako's almost btw. There are MANY people who have brought her skin color to the forefront. It's the main argument.
When they see how talented the actress is they start attacking other aspects of the movie, finding other reasons to invalidate it, or giving backhanded compliments.
"This movie looks too dark? Why is this ONE specific scene so dark?" (Scene takes place during a storm or when Ariel is in a darker part of the ocean like Ursula's liar.)
"I'm going just for Ursula. She is going to save the movie." (Intentionally not acknowledging Ariel, the star of the movie, played by a person with African features, but shifting everything to the villain played by a white woman reinstating they will never accept "that kind" of Ariel.) This isa common way some racist people show hostility towards darker skin people, they don't acknowledge their worth or try to make them feel uncomfortable by staring like they are looking at some kind of unknown creature.
"Disney is pandering to Black people."
Disney "panders" to everyone. Every story they've adapted has been watered down and altered in some way, including those Marvel films.
"Disney is too woke now..."
Disney started off quite a racist company, like many other business in the early part of the century. They are more inclusive now even though they still do make goofy decisions sometimes. I think an issue with SOME people is that they don't want to be reminded that times have changed and what was once held in a dark corner is not so much anymore.
It's usually the older racist people who gripe but these same people teach that same stupid knowledge about skin color to their offspring and the cycle continues and they feel like their skin color grants them some sort of superior status.
I don't even need to mention Namor being "too dark" for Latin America.
Sailor Moon needs to do a quick Moon Healing Escalation for Colorism across the globe.
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I think issue with the logic is that Diznery version is base on
Disney is not making not a new little mermaid version movie.There making a remake base on already existing Disney little mermaid .
If they made a new version and start from scratch.People would not have care this much.I don't think characters should be race swapped of existing property because time has change.I feel that is pure laziness and not being respectful of the original material.
What we need are new characters and stories that represent change.Not trying to change old ones.
Nobody is racist for not approving of this change.I say this African American..I want original and unique characters.
Also the fish characters are now nightmare fuel.
Disney is not making not a new little mermaid version movie.There making a remake base on already existing Disney little mermaid .
If they made a new version and start from scratch.People would not have care this much.I don't think characters should be race swapped of existing property because time has change.I feel that is pure laziness and not being respectful of the original material.
What we need are new characters and stories that represent change.Not trying to change old ones.
Nobody is racist for not approving of this change.I say this African American..I want original and unique characters.
Also the fish characters are now nightmare fuel.