Toon Makers (Saban Moon) Sailor Moon pilot?

[NeoJupiter]

So much drama over something so little, one would think that she's made people pay to watch the pilot.

Only annoying part about it is if one wants to make a gif but even then it isnt THAT big of a deal.

But hey...considering that this pilot was made a the barest of bones of a budget....gotta give the OG crew some credit on the pilot. Imagine if it had gotten picked up and had a proper budget behind it.

 

[Memelord_Yoshi]

So much drama over something so little, one would think that she's made people pay to watch the pilot.

Only annoying part about it is if one wants to make a gif but even then it isnt THAT big of a deal.

But hey...considering that this pilot was made a the barest of bones of a budget....gotta give the OG crew some credit on the pilot. Imagine if it had gotten picked up and had a proper budget behind it.

You should see a thread similar to this one as someone made a comment with the actress making a simian grin years ago. That took like 13 pages of a verbal tennis match. It was quite an interesting exchange of ideas.

 

[Memento]

I hope that now that the POC and music video have been uncovered, someone reaches out to Rocky et al for another interview. I'd love to hear their reactions to seeing the POC again after all these years and the incredible response to it from fans all over the world. Maybe even some of the identified cast members will be willing to do an interview.

 

[Serena-Hime]

She says "I was led in so many directions, with some people even suggesting that the pilot itself was held in archives, like the Library of Congress of all places *chuckles*" It's possible other people suggested she investigate the LOC archives via DMs, YouTube comments, or her Patreon Discord, but as far as I can tell, I was at least the only one on Twitter, and with so many people saying in response to the discovery, "Whoever would have guessed it would be there?" I can't help but feel a little salty and want to scream "I DID! FOR THE LAST FIVE YEARS I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS!" So if other people really did also point her in that direction, I'm happy to share in the anonymous collective credit, but if I was the only one...

I wish she did credit you, it was such a genius idea to check the LOC! I expect the docu-series would have been much shorter had she done this sooner, but I also did really love all of the background info and interviews so I'm glad it wasn't her first move.

I honestly giggled when she mentioned the Sailor Moon Forum, I had the same reaction during the first video when she described the SOS movement because I was lurking in those online communities back then (when I was a literal toddler lol)

 

[Seen2]

@Seen2 It’s the way nobody will ever share lost Sailor Moon media again because of crybabies like you.

Glad to see you're throwing in the towel with the name-calling. Have fun staying mad that people are criticizing a bad practice, I guess.

And what exactly are you bringing to the table? Have you uncovered some lost artifact of Sailor Moon history? Have you donated to some sort of fund to fund the findings of some Sailor Moon media? Grow up lol.

Even if you think people outside of lost media preservation aren't allowed to voice opinions or concerns, how on Earth does that mean people from within the community can't either? Just because you managed to find something first doesn't make it morally ok to do whatever you want with it before releasing it *or* locking it away for yourself.

(Also I scour Japanese sites for production materials of the 90's anime pretty regularly. I might not have any money on me to actually buy them, but the animation process of the series is pretty is pretty important to me and I think I've gotten enough stuff to warrant hosting a large file with it pretty soon. Not sure if that crosses your threshold of worthiness to talk about these things, but if not, see my quote above.)

Please, it's a small watermark in the corner of the frame. You realize that right? Do you not think your response should be in proportion to the violation, or do you really think it's that heinous that you need to treat it like some 'gross' unethical, greedy clout-chasing violation for which she must be held accountable?

The fact that she's doubled down on Twitter when people pointed it out and the fact that she's done the same for stuff like Mean Girls on the DS shows that she knows exactly what she's doing and she should be called out for it. Yes. I wouldn't have called her behavior 'gross' if it wasn't for all this extra stuff afterwards. This is the stuff that crossed the line for me.
Calling someone's behavior "gross" isn't going around calling someone names. I *hope* she realizes the problem with this behavior, I *really don't think* she cares about it after having done this before and wrote off people mentioning it. I'd love to be wrong, though.

Cool.

Awesome.

And I think that is incredibly silly and a disproportionate response to the violation in question. To call something unethical is one thing, to call it 'gross' is another. But it seems to me that you have an overall disdain for the idea of her wanting attention and money for her findings in the first place, so I'm guessing it's really not just about the watermark for you.

I've continuously defended the documentary and said that I understood wanting acknowledgement. I'm not the best at wording things out sometimes, but in this case I'm pretty sure I've made it as clear as I possibly could that those weren't the things I was upset about.
You've said yourself that you agree that not uploading the original files is something that should be pointed out, so you clearly get the importance of archiving lost media in it's original format, which has been the entire point of my argument the entire time. If you wanna skip over all of that again and write me off as whatever this part of your post is supposed to build up to, then I dunno what to tell you.

 

[Sailor Cynic]

I wasn't bothered by the watermark myself (it's not like it covers anything important), but I do think people wanting a clean version somewhere online is pretty legit.

But I also think it's a great point that at least it's not being hoarded forever/hidden behind a paywall/slowly drip-fed or teased just to build up more hype for the eventual full video. A lot of people who find or have access to lost media or similar things are really unprofessional in this area, and the research into this did end up leaving Sailor Moon fans with everything they originally wanted to know about the Toon Makers pitch and more. I haven't been following the whole process of this documentary being made, but I think it seems like people weren't even expecting the entire pitch to be obtained, or at least get shown publicly as early as it was.

I think it being found at all is enough to be satisfied with for now, and that maybe in the future the original file will get posted too.

 

[Serena-Hime]

I wouldn't have called her behavior 'gross' if it wasn't for all this extra stuff afterwards.

You explicitly describe the watermarked upload itself to be gross in your original comment- not her behavior after being criticized for it. Which is it?

As great of a find this has been, the fact that Ray slapped a watermark onto the video and never released the original files is really gross tbh. If it was just with the youtube video, that'd be one thing, but she did it with the Internet Archive page too.

Otherwise I would not have criticized you, because I don't necessarily have an issue with describing her calling people 'miserable' for requesting the clean copy for the Archive to be gross (though I would want to know who specifically she's calling miserable).

Yes.

I don't agree that a small watermark in the corner of the frame is such a deeply morally unethical violation to deserve the description "gross" and require 'calling out' (beyond repeated requests and explanations as to why it's unethical), even if it's been done before. I think it's unproductive, overly moralistic and a disproportionate reaction to the violation at hand and adds nothing to the critique. It's really not that deep.

I've continously defended the documentary and said that I understood wanting acknowledgement. You've said yourself that you agree that not uploading the original files is something that should be pointed out, so you clearly get the importance of archiving lost media in it's original format, which has been the entire point of my argument the entire time. If you wanna skip over all of that again and write me off as whatever this part of your post is supposed to build up to, then I dunno what to tell you.

And I've continuously indicated that I have no problem with requesting she upload the unaltered footage to the archive in accordance with ethical standards for archiving lost media, only the description of her adding the watermark to be "gross" behavior and the implied disdain for her wanting clout and money for finding it.

 

[ChampionOfNuggets]

.

But I also think it's a great point that at least it's not being hoarded forever/hidden behind a paywall/slowly drip-fed or teased just to build up more hype for the eventual full video.

Oof that reminds me years back some fan got his hands on unedited Zyu2 footage (the stuff Toei had shot exclusively for Power Rangers to use) since a lot of it went unused for various reasons (BS&P, timing, Power Rangers deciding to splice in footage of the mecha from the Dairanger series to sell new toys in time for Christmas) . Said fan decided to release teeny bits of footage a week. Most of it was barely anything. Well Jeff Pruitt, the stunt director for the American fight scenes found out fans were really interested in this stuff and when he realized he still had the tapes he uploaded a bunch of them in two YouTube videos. The aforementioned fan was extremely salty about said thing even though Pruitt was well within his right and was doing a solid for everyone interested who didn't want to wait a week to see 5 seconds of "new" footage


Point I'm making is, let's be grateful the worst thing Rey did was initially bury it in a long ass video and then put a watermark -that in no way detracts from the video- on the video. She didn't put it behind a Patreon paywall or release it in little spurts.

 

[Leia the Rebel]

I didn't even know there was a watermark on the footage. I watched both parts one and two of the video. it must be a small watermark.
Such a silly thing to complain about. The girl put in a lot of work into this, she got interviews with people who gave in some insight. she talked to two of the actresses and was able to get the green lite to get the files from the guy who held the Copywrite. I don't blame her for putting a watermark as people are already taking the video and re-uploading it onto their account, I'm going to bet without credit and some are apparently removing the tiny watermark.

on a side note that one dude was kind of creepy, his name is escaping me, he even tried to ask her out.

 

[Rika-Chicchi]

Enough discussions on the watermark now - I think everyone has already sufficiently presented their arguments from various POVs, many of which I think are pretty valid, & don't think any more would contribute much additionally, except probably leading to emotional, unconstructive conversations &, hence, bad feelings between forum members. So let's get back to other matters regarding the pilot.

 

[Leia the Rebel]

I found it interesting how one of the earliest ads for Called Sailor Moon Victoria and that was her name in this pilot. I wonder if the other names were the girls name.. aside from Blue, looks like Saban Mercury needs a human name.

 

[Serena-Hime]

I found it interesting how one of the earliest ads for Called Sailor Moon Victoria and that was her name in this pilot.

It's speculated that Dic/Bandai America got Moon's name from the Toonmaker's pitch, yes! I don't think the other character's names are spoken in the pilot but I'm willing to bet they're the same, except for maybe Blue. I definitely prefer the names we got for the final DiC dub, they make more sense as americanized versions of their Japanese names, but it would have been funny to live in a world where Sailor Moon's civilian name was Victoria in America lol.


Especially funny for me, because I changed my name to Serena (short for Serenity lol) in homage to SM when I was nineteen. I don't think I'd make a good Victoria lol

 

[Tsundereshipper]

She says "Cause he'll gonna be dancing with me!" not "you're gonna be dancing with me!"



Mars = The tomboy
Jupiter = The smart one
Venus = The girly one
Mercury = The fun one
Moon = The daydreamer

How the hell did they manage to mis-match Venus, Mercury and Jupiter’s personalities so hard?

According to the actual 90’s anime canon it should be:

Mercury = smart
Jupiter = girly
Venus = fun

 

[Rika-Chicchi]

For some reasons the characters in the pilot remind me of the lead character in Everything Everywhere All at Once. lol

 

[Star Angel Haruki]

They should have let Prince Darien through. I'd like to see who would have played his live version actor.

I also wonder about Victoria's parents, and if Shingo would make an appearance...that older teacher is Haruna.

I found the ending so funny. Whether she is Usagi, Victoria, or Serena..she is always daydreaming.

 

[Rika-Chicchi]

They should have let Prince Darien through. I'd like to see who would have played his live version actor.

Let Rose play him.

that older teacher is Haruna.

Her full name would be Cherry Springfield.

 

[Neo King Rose]

I'll do it lol

 

[timboooo]

I think I never mentioned it here, but the Latin Spanish dub is the dub where Cloverway got their S/SuperS logos from.

There's also a "Sailor Moon Stars" logo, but it never saw the light of day outside Latin America

That SuperS logo is the same as the original Japanese SuperS logo. The CWi one looked like this:

Interesting that the Stars logo looks to be the same one that the Negavision dub used.

 

[Masquerade]

That SuperS logo is the same as the original Japanese SuperS logo. The CWi one looked like this:

Wasn't the Latin American logo used by Pioneer in their DVD releases?

 

[ChampionOfNuggets]

It's speculated that Dic/Bandai America got Moon's name from the Toonmaker's pitch, yes! I don't think the other character's names are spoken in the pilot but I'm willing to bet they're the same, except for maybe Blue.

I'd bet they're definitely the same, with the obvious exception of Blue.

I definitely prefer the names we got for the final DiC dub, they make more sense as americanized versions of their Japanese names,

Same. Serena is a prettier name than Victoria. Raye is just a different spelling of Rei, Lita is less generic than Sarah and if Minako had been called Carrie I'd be worried the pigs blood would drop on her at any second.

but it would have been funny to live in a world where Sailor Moon's civilian name was Victoria in America lol.

Darien: *gasp* Victoria's Secret is that she's Sailor Moon!!!