We will get to see Haruka and Usagi's kiss?

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blu notte

Luna Crescens
Dec 20, 2014
186
0
0
www.fanfiction.net
#62
imaginationgirl said:
Well the kiss was there :-P
A poor shot, though. I liked the whole episode but this scene. Not for the kiss itself but because it's poorly drawn. It's interesting that they showed no romanticism in the kiss; it's a predatory kiss (not a romantic kiss) and they kept it this way:Usagi is shocked and Haruka threated Usagi before the kiss.
 
Jul 21, 2014
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#63
blu notte said:
A poor shot, though. I liked the whole episode but this scene. Not for the kiss itself but because it's poorly drawn. It's interesting that they showed no romanticism in the kiss; it's a predatory kiss (not a romantic kiss) and they kept it this way:Usagi is shocked and Haruka threated Usagi before the kiss.
Usagi wasn't just shocked, she was trying to back away before it happened.
 
Apr 20, 2012
2,253
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Texas
skelenator-rainbow.tumblr.com
#64
I suppose one could say Uranus and Neptune are more secure in their relationship, since it doesn't bother them like it did Usagi and Mamoru. :P I do agree the lack of Michiru reaction or focus on how it effected them is lame though. I'll also be a bit disappointed if we don't see Haruka and Michiru kiss despite getting this kiss.

GrayeDiana said:
I can't remember everything, it went by so fast. Nothing really stood out to me besides the Uranus/Moon scene.
I do remember a scene of Chibiusa easing the pain of Hotaru's breathing attack with her crystal though.
I understand. :) Still, thanks for the confirmation! I remember that scene of Chibiusa from the manga too. Looking forward to seeing it animated.
 

kamen_glider

Luna Crescens
Jul 10, 2012
182
4
0
#66
SailorWelshy said:
kamen_glider said:
What's particularly offensive about it is that Haruka and Michiru are the only lesbian couple in the entire story.
How is that offensive? :?
Sigh, it's offensive because the only lesbian couple get treated like utter sh*te, as if their relationship doesn't matter. As a lesbian woman am I allowed to be offended about it, or am I just being too sensitive? Come on.
 
Oct 28, 2010
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CHECK THE MAP
#68
Joaco95 said:
Prince Rose said:
imaginationgirl said:
Well the kiss was there :-P
Clearly Usagi didn't enjoy it
yeah

thats why she pulled her away like demande
Because Haruka put Usagi in a dress and revealed an insane obsession with her instead of making a vague threat and just kissing her spontaneously, right?

I feel kinda bad for Usagi. She keeps getting unwanted kisses by strangers. First it was an unasked for kiss by Mamoru, then a forced kiss by Demande, then another (sudden) forced kiss by Haruka.
 

nixandrc

Lumen Cinererum
Oct 23, 2014
389
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#70
well next week we'll see Haruka in female clothing so I wonder how they will animate Usagi's reaction to that scene after this kiss :P
 

meekxthree

Lumen Cinererum
Dec 18, 2014
492
5
5
#72
My only problem with the kiss is the stupid double standard going on in terms of the kiss from Mamoru in act 4. Everyone's using the excuse "but this is character development it adds to the story!!!" So did the non consensual kiss from Mamoru in act 4. It alluded to the fact that he felt something special for her without really knowing her, and he obviously did because they're star-crossed lovers. I feel like the act 4 kiss added more to the story than this one did, but everyone seems to be excusing Haruka because everyone is head-over-heels in love with her and alot of people dislike Mamoru for whatever reason.

edit: I'm not saying doing things like that without someone's consent is okay, but I am saying that there seems to be a strange double standard here.
 
Aug 16, 2014
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#74
This is the sad double stander,when is a couple people don't like.(Or a character they don' like) The fandom is extra hard on them,and there actions are demonixe. But when a couple,and character they do like . (They usualy excuse there actions)
 
#75
meekxthree said:
My only problem with the kiss is the stupid double standard going on in terms of the kiss from Mamoru in act 4. Everyone's using the excuse "but this is character development it adds to the story!!!" So did the non consensual kiss from Mamoru in act 4. It alluded to the fact that he felt something special for her without really knowing her, and he obviously did because they're star-crossed lovers. I feel like the act 4 kiss added more to the story than this one did, but everyone seems to be excusing Haruka because everyone is head-over-heels in love with her and alot of people dislike Mamoru for whatever reason.

edit: I'm not saying doing things like that without someone's consent is okay, but I am saying that there seems to be a strange double standard here.
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=27799

Here's my take on the Mamoru kiss.

Similar to that situation, at this point in the story we still don't know whether Haruka is a friend or foe, or why she keeps changing gender presentation. This kiss serves to muddy that further-is she after Usagi? Or is the kiss meant to make a point, to show Usagi that she's vulnerable? After all, she did just leave the protection of her friends to chase after a stranger, assuming she could trust her.

Here's another curveball: are Haruka and Michiru a "problematic old-fashioned queer portrayal" in that they're so much more sexual than the lead couple, and are not faithful to each other? Or are they actually still ahead of their time, since they're secure enough to trust their devotion to one another and not be troubled by what goes on on the side? "Polyamory," if you will?

I'm just gonna keep with the old notion that they're cool. P-:
 

meekxthree

Lumen Cinererum
Dec 18, 2014
492
5
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#76
Trust me, I think both kisses have a story-driving motive behind them, I don't think that it's morally correct in real life, but not everything can be in a fictional story. I think Mamoru's non-consensual kiss and Haruka's are both parts of the story for a reason, I'm just mentioning that there's a definite double standard going on. I agree with the topic you made whole-heartedly.
 

MariaTenebre

Systema Solare
Jul 22, 2009
5,207
619
665
#77
meekxthree said:
Trust me, I think both kisses have a story-driving motive behind them, I don't think that it's morally correct in real life, but not everything can be in a fictional story. I think Mamoru's non-consensual kiss and Haruka's are both parts of the story for a reason, I'm just mentioning that there's a definite double standard going on. I agree with the topic you made whole-heartedly.
I don't have as much of a problem with Mamoru's kiss as it basically was the whole Sleeping Beauty idea and it did enrich their relationship. I do however have a problem with the Haruka and Usagi kiss because it craps on Haruka and Michiru's relationship just to enhance Usagi and Mamoru's relationship. I actually think I am growing to have a distaste of the manga due to the whole main character get's all trope and how pretty much all of the other characters including their romantic relationships only serve as a way to big up Usagi and Mamoru's relationship at their own expense. I still like the manga but this idea especially how the only lesbian couple in the series get's their relationship trampled over like it doesn't matter only to strengthen Usagi and Mamoru's relationship.
 

Neon Genesis

Solaris Luna
Oct 31, 2015
2,332
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#78
My thoughts of this kiss as a gay male Sailor Moon fan is that I think we can be critical of this kiss but still have a more nuanced approach to it. Yes, this kiss has problematic issues to it. Yes, it would be wrong to do something like this in real life. And yes, I would love a kiss scene between Haruka and Michiru in Crystal and I really hope Crystal would add one in for all of us fans. At the same time, this kiss is still meaningful to me as a gay fan because we have so few portrayals of physical same-sex affection in Sailor Moon, in spite of all the LGBT characters in the franchise. Looking at the 90s anime we only had Fisheye kissing Mamoru while he was unconscious as well and PGSM only gave us fanbait subtext between Rei and Minako that never really went anywhere.

So to me, to have this same sex kiss between two of the most popular and iconic anime heroines ever, one being the main character, and the other being one of the most popular of the Outer Soldiers, I think is very important to me as a gay fan to show that you can have a main heroine who does explore this other side to her feelings, and still save the world from evil while not being the butt of a comic relief joke like you see in a lot of other anime. Like just looking at other mainstream anime, not including yaoi and yuri titles, how many mainstream anime can you think of that have the main character kiss another person of the same sex at all? Like the only other examples I can think of might be Yuri Kuma Arashi and Utena but those titles aren't nearly as mainstream as Sailor Moon and Utena is like almost 15 years old now, and Crystal is obviously very heavily influenced by Utena, which dealt with a lot of these same issues with controversial portrayals of sexuality. In regards to fans critical of Usagi and Mamoru's kiss, in fairness to them, Crystal did improve the original manga a bit by cutting out the part where Usagi got drunk, which gave that kiss more of the fairytale esque feeling that Naoko was trying to aim for, and Crystal did get a lot of praise for doing that. So I don't think fans are being quite so hypocritical about this. And so long as we're talking about double standards, you could also ask why don't all the Usagi fans who are critical of Mamoru also don't criticize Neo Queen Serenity for kissing King Endymion when he was still asleep at the end of the Black Moon arc, so you could say that's hypocritical of fans as well.
 

kamen_glider

Luna Crescens
Jul 10, 2012
182
4
0
#79
Neon Genesis, sure it's fine if you like the kiss. But a lot of people, including me find it offensive. The kiss isn't consensual and invokes the dumb "predatory butch lesbian" goes after a straight girl trope. Plus, the "predatory lesbian" is doing all of this when she's supposed to be in a relationship with another girl. Yay.
Basically for a lot of lesbians Haruka and Michiru's relationship is really important so this plot point in the manga strikes a lot of sour notes :-P
 

Neon Genesis

Solaris Luna
Oct 31, 2015
2,332
259
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#80
And that's fine if you don't like it. As a gay male Sailor Moon fan, I thought the 90s anime portrayal of Zoisite and Kunzite's relationship was offensive and stereotypical and don't really care for them but lots of Sailor Moon fans love their relationship and think they're a positive portrayal of villains of the same sex that happen to be in love. My point is that it's ok to still love something that you recognize has these issues as long you as you accept these issues are there. And these issues will be there because no matter how ahead of its time Sailor Moon is, it's still a story written by a straight cisgender author for a mainstream audience and as great as Naoko is, she's going to be limited in her perspective on these issues because of her privilege as a straight cisgender woman. And unfortunately most of the media that most people like are probably going to have some problematic issues because most media unfortunately is still done by privileged people in society. But it doesn't make fans of this kiss scene bad fans or hypocrites because we have different standards of how far we can accep problematic material anymore than it makes fans of Zoisite and Kunzite bad fans because they still think of them as positive role models even other fans might disagree. It just means every fan is different and we all have different mileages.