Why I Hate Time Travel (Or The Chibiusa Paradox)

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CrystalBard

Lumen Cinererum
Nov 19, 2020
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#1
Chibiusa goes back in time to obtain the Silver Crystal on the day of the Black Moon attack. Therefore, she meets her parents, including the future Neoqueen Serenity. Therefore, Neoqueen Serenity has advance knowledge of what her daughter is going to do and...just lets it happen? Just lets her kingdom get at least temporarily annihalated? Lets her daughter suffer that massive burden of guilt? However, if she does take the practical step of hiding the Crystal in a place Chibusa can't find it, Chibiusa never finds it, which means Neoqueen Serenity never meets her in the past, which means she wouldn't hide it so she'd go back in the past anyway and now my head hurts and if they were going to give Usagi and Mamoru a kid they should've just done a time skip because my brain only works in straight lines.
 
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Rika-Chicchi

Staff member
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May 7, 2009
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#2
Barring the existence/creation of parallel universes, any story featuring time travel is always paradoxical - the only difference is how big, or how obvious, the paradox is, e.g. whether events on a macro scale (like killing your grandpa) or micro scale (like the displacement of air particles from their original positions) are to be altered.

W/ parallel universes, of course, anything can go, as long as the courses of the past & future can be "changeable" by hopping between different parallel universes. lol
 

Onuzim Ima

Aurorae Lunares
Aug 11, 2010
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#3
@Rika-Chicchi Well, that's what several concepts on Time Travel have been telling us for Decades: That visiting the past ALWAYS creates a parallel Universe/Timeline by Default; you can NEVER ever return to your own 'original' world barring you find a way to hop back and forth between different Quantum Universes.

@CrystalBard Here, have an Aspirine. ;)
 

Rika-Chicchi

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May 7, 2009
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#4
@Rika-Chicchi Well, that's what several concepts on Time Travel have been telling us for Decades: That visiting the past ALWAYS creates a parallel Universe/Timeline by Default; you can NEVER ever return to your own 'original' world barring you find a way to hop back and forth between different Quantum Universes.
Yeah, the theory of parallel universes was proposed by the famous theoretical physicist Feynman back in the 50s, if I recall correctly. The question is whether parallel universes do really exist, as quantum phenomena can be interpreted in various ways & the parallel-universe interpretation is just one of them. :)
 
Sep 6, 2014
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#5
Multiverse. There exist a timeline where the Black Moon and Pegasus arc never occur also the girls never meet Hotaru but the silence is prevented. The Stars arc also somehow never happened probably either.

The timeline can be altered in the new timeline Chibi Usa prevented the Black Moon Clan’s coup on Crystal Tokyo so it won’t occur in the main series anymore. Also in Chibi Usa’s flashbacks in R the girls are in their standard Sailor outfits but we know because of Chibi Usa’s relationship with Pegasus they got their Super upgrade. Chibi Usa also makes a clay Holy Grail in S based on her memories but in the actual series it ends up being destroyed by Mistress 9, Chibiusa again changed history so Usagi no longer has the cup with her as Queen.
 

CrystalBard

Lumen Cinererum
Nov 19, 2020
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#6
Multiverse. There exist a timeline where the Black Moon and Pegasus arc never occur also the girls never meet Hotaru but the silence is prevented. The Stars arc also somehow never happened probably either.

The timeline can be altered in the new timeline Chibi Usa prevented the Black Moon Clan’s coup on Crystal Tokyo so it won’t occur in the main series anymore. Also in Chibi Usa’s flashbacks in R the girls are in their standard Sailor outfits but we know because of Chibi Usa’s relationship with Pegasus they got their Super upgrade. Chibi Usa also makes a clay Holy Grail in S based on her memories but in the actual series it ends up being destroyed by Mistress 9, Chibiusa again changed history so Usagi no longer has the cup with her as Queen.
I always had this idea that the painting of the holy grail was made by Chibiusa herself in another future timeline. We know she's an artist and the holy grail is important in both Usagi's stories.
 
Aug 31, 2011
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The Nostromo
#9
Well, you see, people generally think that time is a linear progression from point a to point b, but, really, it's all a bunch of wobbly wobbley, timey wimey.... Stuff. :v

More serious answer, I think it has more to do with another sci-fi law, which basically states that because we saw it happen, it needs to play out. Therefore, Usagi needs to keep quiet about her future knowledge, as queen, she needs to exile the criminal that becomes the leader of Nemesis, she needs to allow Nemesis to attack and she needs to set things up so that ChibiUsa goes into the past. It's honestly a stable time loop overall.
 

foenyanko

Aurorae Lunares
Sep 21, 2010
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#10
Well, you see, people generally think that time is a linear progression from point a to point b, but, really, it's all a bunch of wobbly wobbley, timey wimey.... Stuff. :v

More serious answer, I think it has more to do with another sci-fi law, which basically states that because we saw it happen, it needs to play out. Therefore, Usagi needs to keep quiet about her future knowledge, as queen, she needs to exile the criminal that becomes the leader of Nemesis, she needs to allow Nemesis to attack and she needs to set things up so that ChibiUsa goes into the past. It's honestly a stable time loop overall.
Whatever you do, do not blink.

I don't think it's out of the question for NQS to not know about what was going on in the past considering that even Pluto seemed to be out of the loop. Kind of a big deal for the keeper of time herself to be so oblivious that she nearly annihilated Moon, Venus, and Tux. Barring an alternate universe, I can only assume that time changed once Chibi traveled to the past, and that the NQS she was born to hadn't gone through these things yet. After all, NQS seemingly got her weapon upgrade from Sailor Moon, not the other way around.

It would have been an interesting flip on its head if the series had covered everything it did except the Black Moon arc, and then at the end post-Stars jumped to the future and covered the story of Chibi-Usa going to the past.
 

Rika-Chicchi

Staff member
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May 7, 2009
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#11
Yeah, the theory of parallel universes was proposed by the famous theoretical physicist Feynman back in the 50s, if I recall correctly.
It should be Everett, not Feynman (the latter actually opposed to it). ^_^' His proposal is called the "many-worlds interpretation" - in other words, parallel universes or multiverses.
 
Likes: foenyanko
Mar 25, 2008
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#12
I kinda thought about this the other day when watching the anime. When Chibiusa comes back in S shes apparently sent there by Neo-Q who says she is to meet a "special friend". Even though the writers at the time probably had no idea that would mean Pegasus it could be taken as she was sent back to meet him becuz of course Usagi had already experienced it all in the past. Kind of thinking like "Ok it's now time for her to go back she's 9 years old, she needs to help Hotaru become Mistress 9 so she can be saved and then meet Pegasus, here you go Chibiusa have a good time!"

I kind of just think of the future flashbacks in R as obviously the writers didn't know they'd be in Super form so there was no way to draw them that way but it's also not to spoil the story to show them in the Super outfits. Tbh they should have just been in their princess dresses for that really.
 

MariaTenebre

Systema Solare
Jul 22, 2009
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#13
Chibiusa goes back in time to obtain the Silver Crystal on the day of the Black Moon attack. Therefore, she meets her parents, including the future Neoqueen Serenity. Therefore, Neoqueen Serenity has advance knowledge of what her daughter is going to do and...just lets it happen? Just lets her kingdom get at least temporarily annihalated? Lets her daughter suffer that massive burden of guilt? However, if she does take the practical step of hiding the Crystal in a place Chibusa can't find it, Chibiusa never finds it, which means Neoqueen Serenity never meets her in the past, which means she wouldn't hide it so she'd go back in the past anyway and now my head hurts and if they were going to give Usagi and Mamoru a kid they should've just done a time skip because my brain only works in straight lines.
Well I don't see it like that. While I do think that Neo Queen Serenity knows that Chibiusa will go back in time because it happened in her time as well. I do imagine her trying to do what she can to stop the events of the Black Moon attack but unfortunately like in Classic Greek Tragedy as much as she tries to prevent it, it causes these events to happen.

One recurring thing in Greek Myths is that for instance when a person is told the events of their future and their fate their attempts to avoid it only causes it to happen. Oedipus is a great example of this. Honestly the only God and the only mortal ever able to undo their fates were Zeus and Odysseus.


However the idea that there are multiple timelines and that the Chibiusa we see is from another timeline is nonsense. Because if that were the case then the Sailor Senshi would have no reason to as Chibiusa and Sailor Pluto state to make sure the future is unaltered and Crystal Tokyo happens and Chibiusa wouldn't vanish if something happens to Usagi and/or Mamoru as the Usagi and Mamoru in her altered timeline all ready had her.
 

rgveda99

Gurges Ater
Jul 5, 2009
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#15
Was having a problem thinking who would be the best candidate for Kaolinite to steal the pure crystal to give to Mistress 9 since :chibiusa: never existed in the first place.

Naru would be the best option. Or may be ::tuxspeedmask:.
 

GalX3

Luna Crescens
Nov 13, 2018
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#16
My opinion is time travel should not be part of any story unless the story is specifically about time travel. The reason is that it cheapens all events in the story because any event could potentially be re-written. Even when it is explicitly stated that no further time travel is possible the fact that it was possible once makes it feel less impossible that it might occur again.

It also causes issues like the ones mentioned above as well as outers not being at Crystal Tokyo and there potentially being 2 Plutos in Crystal Tokyo at the point when the original Pluto who guarded the space-time door stops time and spoilers. Don't tell me she is the future Pluto who spent all that time with Sailor Moon because she didn't even recognise Sailor Moon.

Anyway as a kid I watched an Australian cartoon called Dot and the Kangaroo. Dot loses her way and the kangaroo gives her a plant root to eat which helps her understand what the animals are saying. But the kangaroo cautions her "You mustn't eat too much or you will know to much... and that will make you miserable". There is a lot of truth to this when it comes to analysing time travel in Sailor Moon. My opinion is that as fun as it is to discuss this, some things are best left a mystery, like Ami's tattoo.
 

CrystalBard

Lumen Cinererum
Nov 19, 2020
328
246
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#17
My opinion is time travel should not be part of any story unless the story is specifically about time travel. The reason is that it cheapens all events in the story because any event could potentially be re-written. Even when it is explicitly stated that no further time travel is possible the fact that it was possible once makes it feel less impossible that it might occur again.

It also causes issues like the ones mentioned above as well as outers not being at Crystal Tokyo and there potentially being 2 Plutos in Crystal Tokyo at the point when the original Pluto who guarded the space-time door stops time and spoilers. Don't tell me she is the future Pluto who spent all that time with Sailor Moon because she didn't even recognise Sailor Moon.

Anyway as a kid I watched an Australian cartoon called Dot and the Kangaroo. Dot loses her way and the kangaroo gives her a plant root to eat which helps her understand what the animals are saying. But the kangaroo cautions her "You mustn't eat too much or you will know to much... and that will make you miserable". There is a lot of truth to this when it comes to analysing time travel in Sailor Moon. My opinion is that as fun as it is to discuss this, some things are best left a mystery, like Ami's tattoo.
There's a scene in Crystal where Super Sailor Moon jumps into Pharaoh 90 in a failed suicide mission and Chibiusa anguishedly screams "mommy!" and it's all very dramatic, but you have to stop and ask WHY Chibiusa is so freaked out since she should know Usagi will be alright since, y'know, she doesn't immediately vanish from existence.
 

SILVER

Aurorae Lunares
Jan 7, 2014
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Dark Kingdom
#19
There's a scene in Crystal where Super Sailor Moon jumps into Pharaoh 90 in a failed suicide mission and Chibiusa anguishedly screams "mommy!" and it's all very dramatic, but you have to stop and ask WHY Chibiusa is so freaked out since she should know Usagi will be alright since, y'know, she doesn't immediately vanish from existence.
Well, she's a kid lol.

She does question whether there "will be a future" though, so its not like she's not thinking about the possibility of Sailor Moon dying and the glaive falling screwing the timeline.