Why were some changes to the 90s anime made?

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B sizzle

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Good reviews and popularity don’t automatically make a series good, if that were the case Twilight would be considered the highest form of literature and we all know that’s not true.

Yashahime is bad because it’s an OOC fanfic akin to something like Dragonball GT that destroys the integrity of the original in order to make Sunrise director Sumisawa’s pedo, grooming crackship Sessrin canon.



It’s better than Demande/Usagi at least, Saphir actually consents for one! :P But again even if they were blood related it’s not such a big deal in their case since they can’t have kids.



Like I said the normalization of incest is an unfortunately really common topic in anime, you get used to it real fast. Sailor Moon isn’t the only offender in this area, the aforementioned Fruits Basket has a mother getting so jealous and threatened over her husband being attracted to his biological daughter that she forces her to be raised as a boy, and this is the source of almost the entire plot rather than being just a subplot like it is in Sailor Moon!

I think it’s a cultural thing, Japan apparently has some incestuous traditions dating back centuries from what I’ve heard, or they like to get out all that weird [BLEEP] in the media like pedo and incest fetishization as a sort of outlet because it’s such a straight-laced society and they’re very repressed in daily life.
I agree way better than Usagi/Demande. I don’t mind Demande having a thing for Usagi, and being an evil person who wants to force her to be with him to up his bad guy profile. They are villains that is what they do. However, I would have had an issue with Usagi after everything he tried to do to her, her friends, and her family. I am not into stockholder syndrome. So yeah I agree that ship needs to sink.

Like you said Demande and Sapphire are adults and makes it better and not having kids helps. That is the most messed up part of incest. Plus Demande being a villain helps. They are suppose to do things that are not okay. I will still never be full comfortable with it but I can understand it in this case.

You made a very good point about incest being a bad habit in anime. The problem is they make it look okay. The sailor moon anime has it’s issues with this. So does love Hina anime bad.

[SPOILER="Spoiler"]
However this happened in love Hina anime when sue’s brother plans on marrying her, and the main cast is okay with it. Then she does not want to marry anyone yet and the older sister is in love with him, so they get together instead. Not once did anyone question this being wrong.

Now love hina the manga had a similar issue with Keitaro’s younger adopted sister Kanako being in love with him. However they never get together and never go out of their way to say it is okay. Only issue is they never go out the way to say it is wrong either.:luna:
[/SPOILER]


God that is bad when someone is attracted to their daughter that is sick and mother is jealous. That is sick, glad I gave up on that horrid franchise a long time ago. The first manga my brother got, let’s say we did not get another one.

I am not shocked that incest tradition goes back centuries in Japan. While it is not that bad, many people in Japan are stuck in the past and this is proof of it. I should not be shocked incest fetish is still seen in Japan. They get overshadowed by us southerners who get all the heat for it, epically our neighbors on the southeast.
 

Tsundereshipper

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I agree way better than Usagi/Demande. I don’t mind Demande having a thing for Usagi, and being an evil person who wants to force her to be with him to up his bad guy profile.
And even as bad a ship that is, even that isn’t as bad as the Mamoru/Chibi-Usa concept. At least Demande just having a thing for Neo Queen Serenity isn’t creepy like Chibs crushing on her literal father. (Mamoru/Chibi-Usa is extra bad as ship because not only is it straight up heterosexual, reproductive incest that can result in kids, but it’s also pedo/grooming and parent/child ships automatically lend themselves to an unequal power dynamic compared to the equal one two siblings close in age like Demande & Saphir have)

Also say what you will I would have much rather seen a kiss between Demande/Usagi than any between Black Lady and Mamoru, no I don’t care if it was just an “illusion” in the 90’s anime, don’t show that [BLEEP] to 5 year olds, wtf is wrong with you Japan?! :|


Now love hina the manga had a similar issue with Keitaro’s younger adopted sister Kanako being in love with him. However they never get together and never go out of their way to say it is okay.
I don’t find that an issue since non-blood related adopted family members literally isn’t incest. What makes something incest and it being so bad in the first place is the potential for inbreeding and genetically sick kids. (ask me how I know about this, my entire ethnicity is rife with incest such as cousin or uncle/niece marriages, I myself am likely a product of incest somewhere down the line, and I owe it to incest as being the indirect cause as to why I’m autistic because my dad had one of our ethnicity’s common genetic diseases that comes from centuries of inbreeding that rendered him infertile so he tried for 10 years to get my mom pregnant which he only managed to do when they were both in their 40’s which is scientifically documented that having kids at that age drastically raises the occurrence of birth defects such as autism or Down Syndrome, so yeah I technically have my culture’s normalization of incest to thank for being disabled like I am.)

Adopted siblings is not incest and is perfectly kosher for them to get together, my mom actually knew a pair like this who were completely unrelated and adopted in the same home yet ended up marrying each other and raising a happy family.

Now depending on how much younger this adopted sister is there’s still the question of pedophilia and grooming, but incest itself is a non-issue.


God that is bad when someone is attracted to their daughter that is sick and mother is jealous. That is sick, glad I gave up on that horrid franchise a long time ago. The first manga my brother got, let’s say we did not get another one.
Wait Fruits Basket was the first manga your brother got? I actually implore you to continue it and not let that scare you off, it’s really good otherwise.

And actually you’re mistaken, the father is like Mamoru and is never once implied to actually be attracted to his daughter, they have a completely normal and healthy father-daughter relationship. (The daughter is actually better than Chibi-Usa in this regard because she’s not crushing on her father at all)

No they both end up victims of the mother character’s delusions, she’s projecting her jealousies onto them and there was never anything actually going on between them. To it’s credit, like in the Sailor Moon manga she’s clearly framed as a villain and a psycho in the wrong here, but what bothers me is how unrealistic a motivation this even is - I mean what normal person walks around suspecting a father of seriously being attracted to his own daughter? The very concept of this plot point is creepy and so unneeded and it would’ve been better to change her motivation to literally anything else, cause again it just presents an uncomfortable normalization of incest to begin with.

Like in Love Hina the other problem is that when the mother’s jealousy is revealed, everyone treats it as normal and a perfectly acceptable and sane motivation to have, no one ever once thinks to call her out or question the logic of “hey, um that’s you and your husband’s own biological daughter so maybe you shouldn’t see her as competition for your husband weirdo!” No they just all act like “oh that makes sense!” and it’s infuriating because this is exactly the sort of normalization of incest I’m talking about that’s all over anime and manga as a medium! (Also again using the creepy pedo/grooming father-daughter trope in particular, ew!)



I am not shocked that incest tradition goes back centuries in Japan. While it is not that bad, many people in Japan are stuck in the past and this is proof of it. I should not be shocked incest fetish is still seen in Japan. They get overshadowed by us southerners who get all the heat for it, epically our neighbors on the southeast.
Southerners are definitely not the only ones it’s just a meme, cultures like Japan and even my own ethnicity Ashkenazi Jews are just as bad when it comes to the incest department.
 
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kasumigenx

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Like I said the normalization of incest is an unfortunately really common topic in anime, you get used to it real fast. Sailor Moon isn’t the only offender in this area, the aforementioned Fruits Basket has a mother getting so jealous and threatened over her husband being attracted to his biological daughter that she forces her to be raised as a boy, and this is the source of almost the entire plot rather than being just a subplot like it is in Sailor Moon!

I think it’s a cultural thing, Japan apparently has some incestuous traditions dating back centuries from what I’ve heard, or they like to get out all that weird [BLEEP] in the media like pedo and incest fetishization as a sort of outlet because it’s such a straight-laced society and they’re very repressed in daily life.
Akito being raised a male, the Moe elements, and the Zodiac is the "Sugar Coating" of the plot, Takaya's other manga that was not sugarcoated and more realistic was less popular in Japan and did not get an adaptation.
Takeuchi and Takaya are alike in the fact that they are implied to read doujinshi and fanfic of their work.
 

Tsundereshipper

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Akito being raised a male, the Moe elements, and the Zodiac is the "Sugar Coating" of the plot, Takaya's other manga that was not sugarcoated and more realistic was less popular in Japan and did not get an adaptation.
Takeuchi and Takaya are alike in the fact that they are implied to read doujinshi and fanfic of their work.
Normalization of incest is considered “sugar coating” in Japanese terms now? :P
 

kasumigenx

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Normalization of incest is considered “sugar coating” in Japanese terms now? :P
They would rather deal with incest, pedophilia, and age gaps rather than deal with covert narcissism, rape and, psychopathy and show it to a younger audience, I remember there are rumors that Nana was put on hiatus due to offending the right people.

Parts of Sailor Moon-like the killing off the senshi was stopped by Osabu, but not the incest of Chibiusa and Mamoru.

CCS characters were made kids to make them more relatable to the Nakayoshi readers but kept the Sasaki-Terada affair intact, the Yomikiri prototype story of CCS in another title has its MCs as adults.
 
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And even as bad a ship that is, even that isn’t as bad as the Mamoru/Chibi-Usa concept. At least Demande just having a thing for Neo Queen Serenity isn’t creepy like Chibs crushing on her literal father. (Mamoru/Chibi-Usa is extra bad as ship because not only is it straight up heterosexual, reproductive incest that can result in kids, but it’s also pedo/grooming and parent/child ships automatically lend themselves to an unequal power dynamic compared to the equal one two siblings close in age like Demande & Saphir have)

Also say what you will I would have much rather seen a kiss between Demande/Usagi than any between Black Lady and Mamoru, no I don’t care if it was just an “illusion” in the 90’s anime, don’t show that [BLEEP] to 5 year olds, wtf is wrong with you Japan?! :|



I don’t find that an issue since non-blood related adopted family members literally isn’t incest. What makes something incest and it being so bad in the first place is the potential for inbreeding and genetically sick kids. (ask me how I know about this, my entire ethnicity is rife with incest such as cousin or uncle/niece marriages, I myself am likely a product of incest somewhere down the line, and I owe it to incest as being the indirect cause as to why I’m autistic because my dad had one of our ethnicity’s common genetic diseases that comes from centuries of inbreeding that rendered him infertile so he tried for 10 years to get my mom pregnant which he only managed to do when they were both in their 40’s which is scientifically documented that having kids at that age drastically raises the occurrence of birth defects such as autism or Down Syndrome, so yeah I technically have my culture’s normalization of incest to thank for being disabled like I am.)

Adopted siblings is not incest and is perfectly kosher for them to get together, my mom actually knew a pair like this who were completely unrelated and adopted in the same home yet ended up marrying each other and raising a happy family.

Now depending on how much younger this adopted sister is there’s still the question of pedophilia and grooming, but incest itself is a non-issue.



Wait Fruits Basket was the first manga your brother got? I actually implore you to continue it and not let that scare you off, it’s really good otherwise.

And actually you’re mistaken, the father is like Mamoru and is never once implied to actually be attracted to his daughter, they have a completely normal and healthy father-daughter relationship. (The daughter is actually better than Chibi-Usa in this regard because she’s not crushing on her father at all)

No they both end up victims of the mother character’s delusions, she’s projecting her jealousies onto them and there was never anything actually going on between them. To it’s credit, like in the Sailor Moon manga she’s clearly framed as a villain and a psycho in the wrong here, but what bothers me is how unrealistic a motivation this even is - I mean what normal person walks around suspecting a father of seriously being attracted to his own daughter? The very concept of this plot point is creepy and so unneeded and it would’ve been better to change her motivation to literally anything else, cause again it just presents an uncomfortable normalization of incest to begin with.

Like in Love Hina the other problem is that when the mother’s jealousy is revealed, everyone treats it as normal and a perfectly acceptable and sane motivation to have, no one ever once thinks to call her out or question the logic of “hey, um that’s you and your husband’s own biological daughter so maybe you shouldn’t see her as competition for your husband weirdo!” No they just all act like “oh that makes sense!” and it’s infuriating because this is exactly the sort of normalization of incest I’m talking about that’s all over anime and manga as a medium! (Also again using the creepy pedo/grooming father-daughter trope in particular, ew!)




Southerners are definitely not the only ones it’s just a meme, cultures like Japan and even my own ethnicity Ashkenazi Jews are just as bad when it comes to the incest department.
Not really they are women in real life who get jealous of their daughters or thinking the father will like them more.This is not the same.When I move into brothers.His girlfriend got mad and jealousy.Because he was giving his disabled younger sister attention.
 

Tsundereshipper

Aurorae Lunares
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Not really they are women in real life who get jealous of their daughters or thinking the father will like them more.This is not the same.When I move into brothers.His girlfriend got mad and jealousy.Because he was giving his disabled younger sister attention.
Even if this does somehow happen in real life, it’s a gross concept and I’d prefer not to have the pedo incestuous implications of it in the fiction I view.
 
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Even if this does somehow happen in real life, it’s a gross concept and I’d prefer not to have the pedo incestuous implications of it in the fiction I view.
You may not like it and you have not to see it.But it does not make wrong to have it.Especially when clear that was wrong.Fiction is the place where you can explore these topics.
 

Tsundereshipper

Aurorae Lunares
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You may not like it and you have not to see it.But it does not make wrong to have it.Especially when clear that was wrong.Fiction is the place where you can explore these topics.
I guess that’s true but I would’ve at least preferred the appropriate content warnings beforehand. Instead stuff like Fruits Basket and the Sailor Moon manga is aimed at young teen girls, and in Fruits Basket’s case in particular it initially presents itself as this very wholesome, family-friendly mainstream series and then BAM! two-thirds of the way through, surprise incest plot twist!

If you’re gonna write about such triggering topics at least put that content warning up front and don’t aim it at kids. Don’t just blindside your viewers like that, at least let your audience know what they’re getting into beforehand.
 
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B sizzle

Lumen Cinererum
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And even as bad a ship that is, even that isn’t as bad as the Mamoru/Chibi-Usa concept. At least Demande just having a thing for Neo Queen Serenity isn’t creepy like Chibs crushing on her literal father. (Mamoru/Chibi-Usa is extra bad as ship because not only is it straight up heterosexual, reproductive incest that can result in kids, but it’s also pedo/grooming and parent/child ships automatically lend themselves to an unequal power dynamic compared to the equal one two siblings close in age like Demande & Saphir have)

Also say what you will I would have much rather seen a kiss between Demande/Usagi than any between Black Lady and Mamoru, no I don’t care if it was just an “illusion” in the 90’s anime, don’t show that [BLEEP] to 5 year olds, wtf is wrong with you Japan?! :|



I don’t find that an issue since non-blood related adopted family members literally isn’t incest. What makes something incest and it being so bad in the first place is the potential for inbreeding and genetically sick kids. (ask me how I know about this, my entire ethnicity is rife with incest such as cousin or uncle/niece marriages, I myself am likely a product of incest somewhere down the line, and I owe it to incest as being the indirect cause as to why I’m autistic because my dad had one of our ethnicity’s common genetic diseases that comes from centuries of inbreeding that rendered him infertile so he tried for 10 years to get my mom pregnant which he only managed to do when they were both in their 40’s which is scientifically documented that having kids at that age drastically raises the occurrence of birth defects such as autism or Down Syndrome, so yeah I technically have my culture’s normalization of incest to thank for being disabled like I am.)

Adopted siblings is not incest and is perfectly kosher for them to get together, my mom actually knew a pair like this who were completely unrelated and adopted in the same home yet ended up marrying each other and raising a happy family.

Now depending on how much younger this adopted sister is there’s still the question of pedophilia and grooming, but incest itself is a non-issue.



Wait Fruits Basket was the first manga your brother got? I actually implore you to continue it and not let that scare you off, it’s really good otherwise.

And actually you’re mistaken, the father is like Mamoru and is never once implied to actually be attracted to his daughter, they have a completely normal and healthy father-daughter relationship. (The daughter is actually better than Chibi-Usa in this regard because she’s not crushing on her father at all)

No they both end up victims of the mother character’s delusions, she’s projecting her jealousies onto them and there was never anything actually going on between them. To it’s credit, like in the Sailor Moon manga she’s clearly framed as a villain and a psycho in the wrong here, but what bothers me is how unrealistic a motivation this even is - I mean what normal person walks around suspecting a father of seriously being attracted to his own daughter? The very concept of this plot point is creepy and so unneeded and it would’ve been better to change her motivation to literally anything else, cause again it just presents an uncomfortable normalization of incest to begin with.

Like in Love Hina the other problem is that when the mother’s jealousy is revealed, everyone treats it as normal and a perfectly acceptable and sane motivation to have, no one ever once thinks to call her out or question the logic of “hey, um that’s you and your husband’s own biological daughter so maybe you shouldn’t see her as competition for your husband weirdo!” No they just all act like “oh that makes sense!” and it’s infuriating because this is exactly the sort of normalization of incest I’m talking about that’s all over anime and manga as a medium! (Also again using the creepy pedo/grooming father-daughter trope in particular, ew!)




Southerners are definitely not the only ones it’s just a meme, cultures like Japan and even my own ethnicity Ashkenazi Jews are just as bad when it comes to the incest department.
I agree 100 percent that demande and Sapphire full blown is better than the chibiusa and mamarou even one sided. I mean demande just having a thing for usagi is not bad, because honestly you cannot control how you feel. Chibiusa is suppose to be 900 years old, so she should know better, way better at this point even if she is physically a little girl. It should not have been done in the first place, NT knew when to stop at least. Why not Motoki, I mean that would make more sense. Maybe Chibiusa makes usagi jealous because when she was into him she never got him and it makes usagi mad. You also make a good point in that mamarou and Chibiusa technically having kids is possible makes it worse. Lol Sapphire and Demande being close in age does help.

So yes a kiss between the prince and his bro would be way better than anything between black lady and mamarou even one sided. Lfamo The illusion does not work it is still sick. Japan needs to work on having media not cover pedo stuff /incest. Yes graphic sex scenes between two consenting adults is bad. Lfamo

I have to agree with you that the keitaro and kanako thing was not bad and it never came to fruition. Honestly they had a good reason for it because as a kid he protected her to, and where close. Like you said non blood relation.

Wow I am sorry about that. That is is nuts that those past marriages between relatives caused you to have some autism, I know having that is rough. People who insult people by calling them austic don’t know the pain they cause people who do have it. It caused your dad to have issues to where he could not have you with your ma until his 40’s. Sounds like you have overcome a lot.

Well that is nuts that they grew up together adopted siblings and got married. Hey if worked out for them I am glad to hear it. Honestly you made me think of it there is nothing wrong with that. I guess growing up it is was put into my head for years here in west Texas I have never met anyone out here who is in a relationship with anyone they are related to. I However getting to learn about things has helped, different experiences.

Between Keitaro and Kanako it is not bad so that ship is fine. Plus way better than the anime with Sue.

Oh no it was not the first manga he got, he got the first volume of it when it was on sale years ago because the girl looked like a girl from Ranma 1/2. That is the first one he and I read. He likes it way more than me, I like it he loveessss it. He also loves the manga with lum in it, maybe even more. I like it.

My first experience with anime was speed racer and was not a fan, then Gundam wing not a fan, then Sailor Moon dic version( did not care for it,still better than gundam or speed racer, glad I gave sailor moon another chance with the new dub on Hulu , got hooked, this series is addicting), then finally got into anime with dragonball z and outlaw star.

Oh so it gets better? I might have to see if it is on Hulu and give it another chance then.

Oh I misunderstood you, I thought the dad was attracted to daughter from what you were saying. It is the mother who thought the dad was attracted to her. Okay that makes sense. Glad to hear she is painted as the villain in it and not make it out like it is normal. Honestly it is weird she would think that, but likely is not right in the head. I know people who think crazier stuff than that.

However that is disturbing that everyone is fine her thinking he wants his own daughter that way. It does remind me of everyone being fine with sue having to marry her brother. Weird and gross.

Well it is good to see us in the south are not the only ones made fun of for incest, though our poor southeastern neighbors get it way worse, most see us and Oklahoma as a bunch of drunken rednecks which is way better. LFAMO Japan I am glad is taking off some of the heat off the south.

Your Jewish, your one of few Jewish people I have met. I have met more Muslim and Hindu’s myself, which I thought would not be the case. I am kind of surprised there are not more Jewish people out here in West Texas.
 

kasumigenx

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I guess that’s true but I would’ve at least preferred the appropriate content warnings beforehand. Instead stuff like Fruits Basket and the Sailor Moon manga is aimed at young teen girls, and in Fruits Basket’s case in particular it initially presents itself as this very wholesome, family-friendly mainstream series and then BAM! two-thirds of the way through, surprise incest plot twist!

If you’re gonna write about such triggering topics at least put that content warning up front and don’t aim it at kids. Don’t just blindside your viewers like that, at least let your audience know what they’re getting into beforehand.
Then it made sense why the OG Anime of Fruits Basket was changed by the original director, when Takaya was more upfront of the themes of her manga, it does not get attention and even an adaptation and popularity an example of that are the majority of her other works before and after Fruits Basket.

I like that Utena was more straight to the point than SM in its themes and presents them to the right audience.
 

Tsundereshipper

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Chibiusa is suppose to be 900 years old,
Not in the 90’s anime she’s not, that’s only a plot point canon to the Manga/Crystal. Which just makes her behavior towards Mamoru come off as even more creepy in the 90’s anime because she truly is a child in all ways in that version.


Lol Sapphire and Demande being close in age does help.

So yes a kiss between the prince and his bro would be way better than anything between black lady and mamarou even one sided. Lfamo The illusion does not work it is still sick
Yeah plus Ikuhara shipped them that’s why they even exist in the first place, they’re not a thing at all in the Manga, so if you have a problem with them being a thing take it up him I’m just shipping what he’s showing on screen lol.

Oh no it was not the first manga he got, he got the first volume of it when it was on sale years ago because the girl looked like a girl from Ranma 1/2. That is the first one he and I read. He likes it way more than me, I like it he loveessss it. He also loves the manga with lum in it, maybe even more. I like it.
Oh I absolutely love Rumiko works like Ranma and Urusei Yatsura, that’s where I got my love of mutual tsundere ships from, why do you think I ship both Reisagi and Demande/Saphir as much as I do? :P

Oh I misunderstood you, I thought the dad was attracted to daughter from what you were saying. It is the mother who thought the dad was attracted to her. Okay that makes sense. Glad to hear she is painted as the villain in it and not make it out like it is normal. Honestly it is weird she would think that, but likely is not right in the head. I know people who think crazier stuff than that.

However that is disturbing that everyone is fine her thinking he wants his own daughter that way. It does remind me of everyone being fine with sue having to marry her brother. Weird and gross.
Yeah even though there was never actual incest between the father-daughter pair just having the mother suspecting that and the rather normal reaction around her is gross, I would’ve greatly preferred that the mangaka Natsuki Takaya gave her any other type of motivation, it’s one of the few stains on an overall really well-written story.


Your Jewish, your one of few Jewish people I have met. I have met more Muslim and Hindu’s myself, which I thought would not be the case. I am kind of surprised there are not more Jewish people out here in West Texas.
I’m in Los Angeles California so that’s probably why but in actuality I’m 2nd/3rd generation full Hungarian

But yeah my culture unfortunately has big problems with incest, thank you for your condolences though unfortunately incest like first cousin marriage is still fairly normalized and legal in a lot of more traditional cultures around the world, lord knows why that’s more accepted in religions and not homosexuality when it’s the former that actually does objective damage and not the latter.


I like that Utena was more straight to the point than SM in its themes and presents them to the right audience.
That’s because at least in Utena it’s never normalized in any way, when Nanami accidentally walks in on Akio and Anthy getting it on she becomes immediately disgusted and questions the sanity of everyone around her, this is the route Fruits Basket should’ve took with Ren’s incestuous delusions.

Parts of Sailor Moon-like the killing off the senshi was stopped by Osabu, but not the incest of Chibiusa and Mamoru.
Osabu censored the goddamned wrong thing! :P
 
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I guess that’s true but I would’ve at least preferred the appropriate content warnings beforehand. Instead stuff like Fruits Basket and the Sailor Moon manga is aimed at young teen girls, and in Fruits Basket’s case in particular it initially presents itself as this very wholesome, family-friendly mainstream series and then BAM! two-thirds of the way through, surprise incest plot twist!

If you’re gonna write about such triggering topics at least put that content warning up front and don’t aim it at kids. Don’t just blindside your viewers like that, at least let your audience know what they’re getting into beforehand.
Yeah I disagree with that.There mangas are for teens and how was done.It was not innopropiate for that age.Especially since it was not even incest .It was just the mother being jealousy and insecure .There was no need for trigger warnings.
 

Tsundereshipper

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Especially since it was not even incest .
There may have not been any actual incest shown onscreen but just the mere suggestion/implication of it with this sort of plotline should merit some type of warning. (Especially with something as bad as father/daughter incest references tend to be)

The fact that some of the characters all treat is as normal with the revelation of it is also bad and an example of normalization of the topic.
 

B sizzle

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Not in the 90’s anime she’s not, that’s only a plot point canon to the Manga/Crystal. Which just makes her behavior towards Mamoru come off as even more creepy in the 90’s anime because she truly is a child in all ways in that version.



Yeah plus Ikuhara shipped them that’s why they even exist in the first place, they’re not a thing at all in the Manga, so if you have a problem with them being a thing take it up him I’m just shipping what he’s showing on screen lol.


Oh I absolutely love Rumiko works like Ranma and Urusei Yatsura, that’s where I got my love of mutual tsundere ships from, why do you think I ship both Reisagi and Demande/Saphir as much as I do? :P


Yeah even though there was never actual incest between the father-daughter pair just having the mother suspecting that and the rather normal reaction around her is gross, I would’ve greatly preferred that the mangaka Natsuki Takaya gave her any other type of motivation, it’s one of the few stains on an overall really well-written story.



I’m in Los Angeles California so that’s probably why but in actuality I’m 2nd/3rd generation full Hungarian

But yeah my culture unfortunately has big problems with incest, thank you for your condolences though unfortunately incest like first cousin marriage is still fairly normalized and legal in a lot of more traditional cultures around the world, lord knows why that’s more accepted in religions and not homosexuality when it’s the former that actually does objective damage and not the former.



That’s because at least in Utena it’s never normalized in any way, when Nanami accidentally walks in on Akio and Anthy getting it on she becomes immediately disgusted and questions the sanity of everyone around her, this is the route Fruits Basket should’ve took with Ren’s incestuous delusions.


Osabu censored the goddamned wrong thing! :P
Oh I thought she was in the anime as well. That makes her hitting on mamarou that much worse since she is not 900 l, still a kidand then continues to do it after knowing it her dad.

Oh I thought that Sapphire and Demande being a thing was a manga thing. I seem to remember it being more Sapphire and Petz, then Demande one sided romance where he tried to force Usagi to marry him. Also the Demande/Esmeralde one sided romance. Still I don’t have a issue with Demande/Sapphire.

Oh is did not know you liked RT and Ranma/Urusei Yatsura. They to me are some of the best comedy manga I have ever read and have great characters. I do like the Ranma anime, have not got around to the other on the anime because there is not much of it available since it is old. In fact Rei’s grandad reminds me of a Happosai, except not as bad. Lol I hated Shampoo, greatest heel in anime, poor Moose. Lol Always wanted Akane( Ami looks like Akane) to punch her face in. Lfamo I am also a huge fan of Kuno. Kuno for life. My bro loves Ryoga to this day.
I did not know that it helped lead to you shipping Demande/Sapphire and epically Reisagi since Rei’s grandad is so like a major Ranma character.

Yeah I agree you, the fact they implies that the mother thought the dad was into the daughter is sick and twisted enough. She should have given the mother motivation for what she did.

Oh so your an LA resident and Hungarian, I have never met a full Hungarian before.

No problem at all, people underestimate how rough Autism is on a person. Wow so incest has been an issue among Hungarian culture, that is horrible. I had zero clue it is still ingrained there.

That does get me how people are okay with incest but not homosexuality. Epically like you said there are not the issues with homosexuality that there are incest, epically with inbread kids.
 

Tsundereshipper

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Oh I thought she was in the anime as well. That makes her hitting on mamarou that much worse since she is not 900 l, still a kidand then continues to do it after knowing it her dad.
I also hate how it was more played for laughs in the 90’s anime and treated as “humor,” like I’m sorry but no, there is nothing humorous about someone’s 5-10 year old kid from the future hitting on their 18+ dad, stop this is not how you do comedy, Rumiko knows how to do better humor than you Toei and Naoko!


Oh I thought that Sapphire and Demande being a thing was a manga thing. I seem to remember it being more Sapphire and Petz, then Demande one sided romance where he tried to force Usagi to marry him. Also the Demande/Esmeralde one sided romance. Still I don’t have a issue with Demande/Sapphire.
Nope it’s the opposite, Demande/Saphir is a 90’s anime and Myu exclusive ship akin to the likes of KunZoi, Saphir low-key hates Demande in the Manga and is little more than a psycho monster of the day tier villain there.

It’s Petz/Saphir that was one-sided and the reason for her love for men, I’m honestly surprised you didn’t pick up on the hints what with that scene in episode 83 where Saphir admits he understands how Esmeraude feels and feels the same jealousy and hatred towards Sailor Moon like she does.

Plus there was this scene right here:


Naturally both of these scenes were cut from the old DIC dub on account of being too gay lmao


Oh is did not know you liked RT and Ranma/Urusei Yatsura. They to me are some of the best comedy manga I have ever read and have great characters. I do like the Ranma anime, have not got around to the other on the anime because there is not much of it available since it is old. In fact Rei’s grandad reminds me of a Happosai, except not as bad. Lol I hated Shampoo, greatest heel in anime, poor Moose. Lol Always wanted Akane( Ami looks like Akane) to punch her face in. Lfamo I am also a huge fan of Kuno. Kuno for life. My bro loves Ryoga to this day.
I did not know that it helped lead to you shipping Demande/Sapphire and epically Reisagi since Rei’s grandad is so like a major Ranma character.
Ranma/Akane is one of my fave hetero ships of all time and is what kickstarted my love for tsundere couples lol. Yeah now that you mention it 90’s Grandpa Hino acts alot like Happosai, I wonder if he was inspired by him? Either him or Master Roshi.

(Though honestly the fact that she’s willing to depict a dirty old pervert preying on minors as “comedy” is pretty problematic, so even Rumiko isn’t free of issues herself, I’ll give her the benefit of the doubt and chalk it up to the times, 90’s Japan wasn’t the most politically correct environment)




Wow so incest has been an issue among Hungarian culture, that is horrible. I had zero clue it is still ingrained there.
No, it’s not apart of wider Hungarian culture, just Hungarian Jewish culture which they themselves are part of the greater Ashkenazi Jewish ethnicity scattered throughout Central and Eastern Europe.
 
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kasumigenx

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There may have not been any actual incest shown onscreen but just the mere suggestion/implication of it with this sort of plotline should merit some type of warning. (Especially with something as bad as father/daughter incest references tend to be)

The fact that some of the characters all treat is as normal with the revelation of it is also bad and an example of normalization of the topic.
Takaya's other manga which was more realistic and delve into the same topics don't sell well and were not even adapted into another media, I feel that she exaggerated the plot only for the manga to sell well.

I think Chibiusa and the Quartet should be antagonists in Sailor Stars, since they could have motivations against Cosmos, due to her plans to destroy the cauldron.

Osabu censored the goddamned wrong thing! :P
Nakayoshi did not give a damn about pedophilia inneudos especially when CLAMP changed CCS to adapt to Nakayoshi they kept Rika's relationship with her teacher.
 
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Found interesting post about why 90s Mamoru's age is changed.
Tuxedo Unmasked said to; According to Junichi Sato, a lot of this was actually due to a misunderstanding. Naoko's early character notes were unclear on Mamoru's age, so the anime assumed he would be older. and the confusion was caused by the fact that they were working on the anime before Naoko finalized her character concepts.
 

Lady Pen

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Or are you perhaps suggesting that rather than being just aimed at the preschool audience 90’s Sailor Moon was more akin to a family show in the same way Disney and Pixar movies are perceived?
Yes, exactly. I'd add there's also a cultural trait; getting toys isn't only a thing of kids in Japan. There are grown-ups having great toy collections. But, yes, my point is the 90's was a familiar show for children, parents and grandparents.

Interesting considering the Sailor Moon manga is probably the most shonenesque shojo I’ve ever come across. Some could even argue it’s even more Shonen like than the 90’s anime since the manga tends more toward hard-core power scaling
Not quite. It's true that the manga's got a shonen tone due to the scale of the battles or the science fiction genre (BM & Stars), the apocalyptic one (Mugen) and the soap opera one (Stars). But it's the way Naoko dealt with those genres what might've repelled the male readers in Japan, who are always looking for more elaborate battles. They love to see the desire for self-improvement of the main characters and the emphasis on their friendship. To them the SM manga would've been a little snack or not good enough, although back then including such stories in a magazine for little girls was revolutionary.

Why leave them out? I’m interested in hearing about these other reasons.
It would be an endless list, Tsundereshipper. I think it's silly to compare both versions or to try and blame someone for the obvious changes responding to market researches; Iriya Azuma and TV Asahi wanted their Magical Girl Sentai just as Naoko Takeuchi wanted her modern fairy tale. And neither are masterpieces despite their popular recognition.

Some episodes are clearly filler - what comes to mind immediately is episode 9 - my least favorite episode ever. Also like the first half of SuperS is pure filer, most Mimete episodes are filler...
Disagree. Episode 9 is essential for us to know Ami's transition as a Senshi. Ami is a girl locked in her inner world and she needs to break those barriers and to know Usagi's strengths and weaknesses to become her best battle buddy and a better warrior. In the manga we don't see that little transition ... yes, we've got two panels in act 3 where she's assimilating her new identity, but there's nothing more to tell us, as far as I remember.

I don't agree the Mimete arc & the Amazon Trio's one are entirely filler.
Some of the episodes of the Mimete arc are vital for us to delve into the friendship Hotaru and Chibiusa are establishing. It's also important to witness the looming shadow of Saturn building tension before exploding in episodes 124 and 125 and finally to know about the details the Outer Senshi's past (In the anime, Saturn couldn't have destroyed Silver Millenium because we had already seen it completely destroyed by Metalia in episode 44, which would've made a plothole. And for the record, I really like Saturn's role in the Mugen arc as the poetic yin personification being part of the eternal and infinite life cycle).

As for the Amazon Trio arc, yes, the pace is terrible. But is it all filler? I think it's debatable. We've got 22 episodes, too many in my opinion, but some of those were necessary to know the modus operandi and the Trio personalities to feel their death later in episode 149.
Chibiusa is important in this arc too. She keeps in touch with Helios constantly and the viewer can experience how their relationship gets closer and closer. Besides, Chibiusa goes through the hardness of the adult world or how nightmares are hidden behind the light of the most beautiful dreams. In the 30th century, in that utopia, she couldn't have experienced all of that. I do think some episodes could've been omitted though, but not all of them.
 
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kasumigenx

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Not quite. It's true that the manga's got a shonen tone due to the scale of the battles or the science fiction genre (BM & Stars), the apocalyptic one (Mugen) and the soap opera one (Stars). But it's the way Naoko dealt with those genres what might've repelled the male readers in Japan, who are always looking for more elaborate battles. They love to see the desire for self-improvement of the main characters and the emphasis on their friendship. To them the SM manga would've been a little snack or not good enough, although back then including such stories in a magazine for little girls was revolutionary.
Card Captor Sakura beats Sailor Moon in that aspect.