No she wouldn't. If a new timeline was created Usagi could thus choose not to travel back in time at all
Likes:
kasumigenx
The only change that is different from the new and the old timeline is Chibichibi replacing the people that were supposed to help Sailor Moon in the original timeline.
Remember, Chibichibi made sure that the outcome remained the same after she slowly changed her mind, she is destroying the timeline by letting the right people die and she replaced their roles and summoned Chibiusa and gang.
Remember, Chibichibi made sure that the outcome remained the same after she slowly changed her mind, she is destroying the timeline by letting the right people die and she replaced their roles and summoned Chibiusa and gang.
It would have been simpler to introduce the concept of multiple timelines that don't affect each other.
Dragon Ball Z handles it perfectly with the Androids/Cell Saga (I haven't watched Super so I don't know if they have changed/introduced new rules so I'm talking only about the OG arc here).
You have 4 timelines:
1) Trunks' timeline which can be called the OG one as it is 'untainted' by any intruders from another timeline.
2) You have the main timeline in which the events of the manga/anime happen and in which both Trunks!1 and Cell!3 jump into.
3) You have Cell's original timeline from which he came from and in which he kills his own Trunks.
4) You have timeline 4 in which the Trunks!3 from Cell's original timeline went to and eventually got the Shutdown controller to kill the #17 & #18 of his era.
Bizarrely, the data book mentions that in this timeline, the Cell Games occurred in year 767 (same as the main timeline).
It would only work if Cell was born at the same time as Android 17 & 18 were activated. It's possible that Trunks!3 appearing in Timeline 4 changed a lot of things like in the main Timeline but considering the manga/anime never really delves into this timeline, we do not have much information.
Regardless, it's neat and comprehensible - despite time travelling and interacting and changing the past, one cannot change his own future.
The same idea could have been used in Stars; Cosmos tired of all the endless fighting could have fled to one past to selfishly try to change at least one timeline.
But that's not the case in Sailor Moon.
Everything leads to believe that there is only one timeline; the 30th century starting to show the repercussions of what's happening in the 20th century, Chibi-Usa bidding farewell to Usagi and saying they'll meet again in the 30th century, Usagi seeing a glimpse of Crystal Tokyo.
Despite all of the plotholes and inconsistencies, Takeuchi continues to affirm that there is only one future HOWEVER, she also slips in a few lines that suggest... it's not, namely Usagi and Mamoru's final dialogue that seems to imply they'll live out their lives as normal human beings.
Like most of the concepts Takeuchi throws in Stars, she wants to have her cake and eat it as well; a lot of things she introduces can fall into both categories; is Cosmos Usagi = yes and no, is Chaos the progenitor of all the other big bads or are they all the same being = yes and no, will Sailor Chaos appear in Usagi's future = perhaps, yes and no, Usagi doesn't care...
It's not impossible to create a manga where concrete rules and concepts about time travelling work.
Megumu Okada, who is a good writer, based the entire plot of Assassin G around this and introduced a lot of concepts (time travelling, parallel worlds, multi-verse - yes these are 3 different things and he made it work) as well as definite rules (how the procedure of time-travel works and how to get past the limitations of it's effects, how the world itself interacts with time travelers and 'updates' them, the concept of Annihilation and Possession if 2 of the same beings happen to exist in the same timeline etc...)
However, Takeuchi had already trouble writing the story when time was moving in a linear direction, now let alone time travel
Dragon Ball Z handles it perfectly with the Androids/Cell Saga (I haven't watched Super so I don't know if they have changed/introduced new rules so I'm talking only about the OG arc here).
You have 4 timelines:
1) Trunks' timeline which can be called the OG one as it is 'untainted' by any intruders from another timeline.
2) You have the main timeline in which the events of the manga/anime happen and in which both Trunks!1 and Cell!3 jump into.
3) You have Cell's original timeline from which he came from and in which he kills his own Trunks.
4) You have timeline 4 in which the Trunks!3 from Cell's original timeline went to and eventually got the Shutdown controller to kill the #17 & #18 of his era.
Bizarrely, the data book mentions that in this timeline, the Cell Games occurred in year 767 (same as the main timeline).
It would only work if Cell was born at the same time as Android 17 & 18 were activated. It's possible that Trunks!3 appearing in Timeline 4 changed a lot of things like in the main Timeline but considering the manga/anime never really delves into this timeline, we do not have much information.
Regardless, it's neat and comprehensible - despite time travelling and interacting and changing the past, one cannot change his own future.
The same idea could have been used in Stars; Cosmos tired of all the endless fighting could have fled to one past to selfishly try to change at least one timeline.
But that's not the case in Sailor Moon.
Everything leads to believe that there is only one timeline; the 30th century starting to show the repercussions of what's happening in the 20th century, Chibi-Usa bidding farewell to Usagi and saying they'll meet again in the 30th century, Usagi seeing a glimpse of Crystal Tokyo.
Despite all of the plotholes and inconsistencies, Takeuchi continues to affirm that there is only one future HOWEVER, she also slips in a few lines that suggest... it's not, namely Usagi and Mamoru's final dialogue that seems to imply they'll live out their lives as normal human beings.
Like most of the concepts Takeuchi throws in Stars, she wants to have her cake and eat it as well; a lot of things she introduces can fall into both categories; is Cosmos Usagi = yes and no, is Chaos the progenitor of all the other big bads or are they all the same being = yes and no, will Sailor Chaos appear in Usagi's future = perhaps, yes and no, Usagi doesn't care...
It's not impossible to create a manga where concrete rules and concepts about time travelling work.
Megumu Okada, who is a good writer, based the entire plot of Assassin G around this and introduced a lot of concepts (time travelling, parallel worlds, multi-verse - yes these are 3 different things and he made it work) as well as definite rules (how the procedure of time-travel works and how to get past the limitations of it's effects, how the world itself interacts with time travelers and 'updates' them, the concept of Annihilation and Possession if 2 of the same beings happen to exist in the same timeline etc...)
However, Takeuchi had already trouble writing the story when time was moving in a linear direction, now let alone time travel
Everything else can be interpreted, but I think it makes the most sense if it is 1 timeline. Wiseman already existing in the 20th century pretty much confirmed that Crystal tokyo and the events of the black moon arc were going to happen. And the fact that he was part of Chaos in turn confirmed Chaos wasn't gone.*
If you argue the characters post galaxy Cauldron simply have memory gaps it all works out. And we know memory gaps can happen when people get reborn as this occurred after the fall of the silver Millennium. In fact, Luna and Artemis had memory gaps and they were just put in stasis.
The only thing you then account for is Cosmos not fading away like Usagi was in the BMC arc. But you could easily argue that her immense power renders her immune to this rule.
*on a sidenote, it is ironic that Chaos claims it never got to be a planet and then Wiseman did just that
Likes:
kasumigenx
There is no memory loss, it's just bad writing.
Moreover, you are comparing 2 different things here: after the fall of the Silver Millennium, they are reincarnated as completely new people, born out of the womb of an Earthling mother. It makes sense they have no memory because it's technically not 'their' memory anymore; they are a blank slate.
In Stars, they are resurrected. Previously in the series, several characters die and are brought back to life with no memory problems.
In fact, it's not speculation because Takeuchi brings this herself - the Guardian Cosmos gives 2 choices to Usagi, either be reborn (as reincarnated) into the future in a new era or go back to Earth as normal human beings and going their own way in life (this is ambiguous but I would suppose it means they are reborn like in the Classic ending with a complete memory wipe).
Usagi chooses NONE of those options.
She decides to continue living as is (with all of her pain and sadness that comes with her life as she says), continuing being a Senshi (and tying the girls eternally to her servitude).
There are further more contradictions in the story.
When disturbances start occurring in the 30th century, Future!Pluto informs Neo Serenity that there are fluctuations in the space-time continuum.
At this moment, neither Pluto nor NQS know what is causing this - implying that Galaxia attacking Tokyo didn't occur in her era.
Later on, when Chibi-Usa returns back to the 20th century, Neo Serenity still doesn't know what is happening in the past but magically knows that her daughter must go to the Zero Star area.
It's a direct contrast to when in Infinity, Chibi-Usa remembers that her mother told her about Super Sailor Moon.
Meaning Takeuchi is implying that in NQS' past, all of these events didn't occur.
However, Cosmos who is Usagi and comes from an even further future has perfect recollection of what happened.
It happened but also didn't happen.
If Cosmos changed the past (and again by the repercussions in the 30th century and people being oblivious to what is causing this, Takeuchi affirms that the future can be changed/erased), then she wouldn't have come to the past at all.
Worst, it's highly plausible that she exists as Cosmos solely because of the presence of Sailor Chaos but if she destroys Chaos in the present, she herself will cease to exist.
Even if your head-canon is that the Cauldron doesn't affect her, her future - if she had succeeded - would have been erased and she wouldn't have had a future to return to.
BAD WRITING.
Chaos is yet another thing that doesn't make any sense.
It is proven that the Chaos who faces Usagi at the Cauldron knows of the schemes of Death Phantom (whether Chaos is omniscient and knows of the future or knows of this via the battles of our Usagi), yet he doesn't do anything to change the battle plan of Death Phantom.
Several centuries in the future he will still send Death Phantom to a losing battle. The fact that Chibi-Usa still exists with all of her memories proves this fact.
The Wiseman of Black Moon was originally an Earthling NOT the one who poses as Wiseman to Galaxia.
Moreover, at the end of Stars, Chaos is destroyed and the Guardian Cosmos states that it will be reborn via the Chaos Crystal as Sailor Chaos.
From this moment on, in the 30th century, Chaos is dead.
There is nothing for Death Phantom to come from yet he supposedly still exists.
Same logic if you say the Wiseman Galaxia meets = the Wiseman of Black Moon, at this point of time, he CANNOT exist because Chaos is dead.
For Sailor Chaos to exist, Chaos has to completely be reborn anew but Death Phantom cannot exist (and have his powers) unless Chaos exists as the big smoke blob.
Yet it still happened.
Moreover, you are comparing 2 different things here: after the fall of the Silver Millennium, they are reincarnated as completely new people, born out of the womb of an Earthling mother. It makes sense they have no memory because it's technically not 'their' memory anymore; they are a blank slate.
In Stars, they are resurrected. Previously in the series, several characters die and are brought back to life with no memory problems.
In fact, it's not speculation because Takeuchi brings this herself - the Guardian Cosmos gives 2 choices to Usagi, either be reborn (as reincarnated) into the future in a new era or go back to Earth as normal human beings and going their own way in life (this is ambiguous but I would suppose it means they are reborn like in the Classic ending with a complete memory wipe).
Usagi chooses NONE of those options.
She decides to continue living as is (with all of her pain and sadness that comes with her life as she says), continuing being a Senshi (and tying the girls eternally to her servitude).
There are further more contradictions in the story.
When disturbances start occurring in the 30th century, Future!Pluto informs Neo Serenity that there are fluctuations in the space-time continuum.
At this moment, neither Pluto nor NQS know what is causing this - implying that Galaxia attacking Tokyo didn't occur in her era.
Later on, when Chibi-Usa returns back to the 20th century, Neo Serenity still doesn't know what is happening in the past but magically knows that her daughter must go to the Zero Star area.
It's a direct contrast to when in Infinity, Chibi-Usa remembers that her mother told her about Super Sailor Moon.
Meaning Takeuchi is implying that in NQS' past, all of these events didn't occur.
However, Cosmos who is Usagi and comes from an even further future has perfect recollection of what happened.
It happened but also didn't happen.
If Cosmos changed the past (and again by the repercussions in the 30th century and people being oblivious to what is causing this, Takeuchi affirms that the future can be changed/erased), then she wouldn't have come to the past at all.
Worst, it's highly plausible that she exists as Cosmos solely because of the presence of Sailor Chaos but if she destroys Chaos in the present, she herself will cease to exist.
Even if your head-canon is that the Cauldron doesn't affect her, her future - if she had succeeded - would have been erased and she wouldn't have had a future to return to.
BAD WRITING.
Chaos is yet another thing that doesn't make any sense.
It is proven that the Chaos who faces Usagi at the Cauldron knows of the schemes of Death Phantom (whether Chaos is omniscient and knows of the future or knows of this via the battles of our Usagi), yet he doesn't do anything to change the battle plan of Death Phantom.
Several centuries in the future he will still send Death Phantom to a losing battle. The fact that Chibi-Usa still exists with all of her memories proves this fact.
The Wiseman of Black Moon was originally an Earthling NOT the one who poses as Wiseman to Galaxia.
Moreover, at the end of Stars, Chaos is destroyed and the Guardian Cosmos states that it will be reborn via the Chaos Crystal as Sailor Chaos.
From this moment on, in the 30th century, Chaos is dead.
There is nothing for Death Phantom to come from yet he supposedly still exists.
Same logic if you say the Wiseman Galaxia meets = the Wiseman of Black Moon, at this point of time, he CANNOT exist because Chaos is dead.
For Sailor Chaos to exist, Chaos has to completely be reborn anew but Death Phantom cannot exist (and have his powers) unless Chaos exists as the big smoke blob.
Yet it still happened.
Yeah, this is making my head hurt just trying to figure out the manga lore and struggle with poor writing for the final arc.
Likes:
Starlight and kasumigenx
There is no memory loss, it's just bad writing.
Moreover, you are comparing 2 different things here: after the fall of the Silver Millennium, they are reincarnated as completely new people, born out of the womb of an Earthling mother. It makes sense they have no memory because it's technically not 'their' memory anymore; they are a blank slate.
In Stars, they are resurrected. Previously in the series, several characters die and are brought back to life with no memory problems.
In fact, it's not speculation because Takeuchi brings this herself - the Guardian Cosmos gives 2 choices to Usagi, either be reborn (as reincarnated) into the future in a new era or go back to Earth as normal human beings and going their own way in life (this is ambiguous but I would suppose it means they are reborn like in the Classic ending with a complete memory wipe).
Usagi chooses NONE of those options.
She decides to continue living as is (with all of her pain and sadness that comes with her life as she says), continuing being a Senshi (and tying the girls eternally to her servitude).
There are further more contradictions in the story.
When disturbances start occurring in the 30th century, Future!Pluto informs Neo Serenity that there are fluctuations in the space-time continuum.
At this moment, neither Pluto nor NQS know what is causing this - implying that Galaxia attacking Tokyo didn't occur in her era.
Later on, when Chibi-Usa returns back to the 20th century, Neo Serenity still doesn't know what is happening in the past but magically knows that her daughter must go to the Zero Star area.
It's a direct contrast to when in Infinity, Chibi-Usa remembers that her mother told her about Super Sailor Moon.
Meaning Takeuchi is implying that in NQS' past, all of these events didn't occur.
However, Cosmos who is Usagi and comes from an even further future has perfect recollection of what happened.
It happened but also didn't happen.
If Cosmos changed the past (and again by the repercussions in the 30th century and people being oblivious to what is causing this, Takeuchi affirms that the future can be changed/erased), then she wouldn't have come to the past at all.
Worst, it's highly plausible that she exists as Cosmos solely because of the presence of Sailor Chaos but if she destroys Chaos in the present, she herself will cease to exist.
Even if your head-canon is that the Cauldron doesn't affect her, her future - if she had succeeded - would have been erased and she wouldn't have had a future to return to.
BAD WRITING.
Chaos is yet another thing that doesn't make any sense.
It is proven that the Chaos who faces Usagi at the Cauldron knows of the schemes of Death Phantom (whether Chaos is omniscient and knows of the future or knows of this via the battles of our Usagi), yet he doesn't do anything to change the battle plan of Death Phantom.
Several centuries in the future he will still send Death Phantom to a losing battle. The fact that Chibi-Usa still exists with all of her memories proves this fact.
The Wiseman of Black Moon was originally an Earthling NOT the one who poses as Wiseman to Galaxia.
Moreover, at the end of Stars, Chaos is destroyed and the Guardian Cosmos states that it will be reborn via the Chaos Crystal as Sailor Chaos.
From this moment on, in the 30th century, Chaos is dead.
There is nothing for Death Phantom to come from yet he supposedly still exists.
Same logic if you say the Wiseman Galaxia meets = the Wiseman of Black Moon, at this point of time, he CANNOT exist because Chaos is dead.
For Sailor Chaos to exist, Chaos has to completely be reborn anew but Death Phantom cannot exist (and have his powers) unless Chaos exists as the big smoke blob.
Yet it still happened.
Moreover, you are comparing 2 different things here: after the fall of the Silver Millennium, they are reincarnated as completely new people, born out of the womb of an Earthling mother. It makes sense they have no memory because it's technically not 'their' memory anymore; they are a blank slate.
In Stars, they are resurrected. Previously in the series, several characters die and are brought back to life with no memory problems.
In fact, it's not speculation because Takeuchi brings this herself - the Guardian Cosmos gives 2 choices to Usagi, either be reborn (as reincarnated) into the future in a new era or go back to Earth as normal human beings and going their own way in life (this is ambiguous but I would suppose it means they are reborn like in the Classic ending with a complete memory wipe).
Usagi chooses NONE of those options.
She decides to continue living as is (with all of her pain and sadness that comes with her life as she says), continuing being a Senshi (and tying the girls eternally to her servitude).
There are further more contradictions in the story.
When disturbances start occurring in the 30th century, Future!Pluto informs Neo Serenity that there are fluctuations in the space-time continuum.
At this moment, neither Pluto nor NQS know what is causing this - implying that Galaxia attacking Tokyo didn't occur in her era.
Later on, when Chibi-Usa returns back to the 20th century, Neo Serenity still doesn't know what is happening in the past but magically knows that her daughter must go to the Zero Star area.
It's a direct contrast to when in Infinity, Chibi-Usa remembers that her mother told her about Super Sailor Moon.
Meaning Takeuchi is implying that in NQS' past, all of these events didn't occur.
However, Cosmos who is Usagi and comes from an even further future has perfect recollection of what happened.
It happened but also didn't happen.
If Cosmos changed the past (and again by the repercussions in the 30th century and people being oblivious to what is causing this, Takeuchi affirms that the future can be changed/erased), then she wouldn't have come to the past at all.
Worst, it's highly plausible that she exists as Cosmos solely because of the presence of Sailor Chaos but if she destroys Chaos in the present, she herself will cease to exist.
Even if your head-canon is that the Cauldron doesn't affect her, her future - if she had succeeded - would have been erased and she wouldn't have had a future to return to.
BAD WRITING.
Chaos is yet another thing that doesn't make any sense.
It is proven that the Chaos who faces Usagi at the Cauldron knows of the schemes of Death Phantom (whether Chaos is omniscient and knows of the future or knows of this via the battles of our Usagi), yet he doesn't do anything to change the battle plan of Death Phantom.
Several centuries in the future he will still send Death Phantom to a losing battle. The fact that Chibi-Usa still exists with all of her memories proves this fact.
The Wiseman of Black Moon was originally an Earthling NOT the one who poses as Wiseman to Galaxia.
Moreover, at the end of Stars, Chaos is destroyed and the Guardian Cosmos states that it will be reborn via the Chaos Crystal as Sailor Chaos.
From this moment on, in the 30th century, Chaos is dead.
There is nothing for Death Phantom to come from yet he supposedly still exists.
Same logic if you say the Wiseman Galaxia meets = the Wiseman of Black Moon, at this point of time, he CANNOT exist because Chaos is dead.
For Sailor Chaos to exist, Chaos has to completely be reborn anew but Death Phantom cannot exist (and have his powers) unless Chaos exists as the big smoke blob.
Yet it still happened.
@Talentless Fool PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YOU ARE WRONG............................. JUST LIKE ALWAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Admins, please. Please, admins.
:upscale()/2014/03/18/886/n/1922283/e7f515c8e5b0bf71_Maleficent3.gif)
YOU ARE WRONG............................. JUST LIKE ALWAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Admins, please. Please, admins.
I never liked this trope of creating a completely different timeline , i dont know why , but it always bugged me when i was a kid
i like this one , that means that the Usagi of the present will also lose the hope when she gets to fight against Chaos in the future , and thats normal , every person can lose the hope when everything looks lost . so she travelling to the past and getting her hope back its just something that will happen again and again and again.
now i see another plote hole , if the future that we always see is the original timeline then we understand that Sailor Galaxia and Chaos never existed in the original timeline , which means that Usagi never travelled to the sagitarious star , so she never jumped to the galactic cauldron , so she never activated the cosmos crystal , so in the original timeline the NQS doesnt posses the cosmos crystal so we can guess that if Chaos attacks the NQS of this original timeline , then she would die ,lol, since she doesnt posses the cosmos crystal , but NOOOOOOUUUUU, it results that she have the cosmos crystal since Sailor Cosmos comes from this original timeline , assuming that all the scenes from the future are from the original timeline where Sailor Galaxia and Chaos doesnt fought against Sailor moon.......
These plot holes made me rethink if i really hate the 90 Stars ending .....
yeah , it is like neherenia would had never existed , the sailors wouldnt had reached the super form then.
If Chaos wouldnt had never existed then Cosmos neither.
If thieves and killer would had never existed then we wouldnt need policemen.
just putting that as example.
i like this one , that means that the Usagi of the present will also lose the hope when she gets to fight against Chaos in the future , and thats normal , every person can lose the hope when everything looks lost . so she travelling to the past and getting her hope back its just something that will happen again and again and again.
When disturbances start occurring in the 30th century, Future!Pluto informs Neo Serenity that there are fluctuations in the space-time continuum.
At this moment, neither Pluto nor NQS know what is causing this - implying that Galaxia attacking Tokyo didn't occur in her era.
Later on, when Chibi-Usa returns back to the 20th century, Neo Serenity still doesn't know what is happening in the past but magically knows that her daughter must go to the Zero Star area.
It's a direct contrast to when in Infinity, Chibi-Usa remembers that her mother told her about Super Sailor Moon.
Meaning Takeuchi is implying that in NQS' past, all of these events didn't occur.
However, Cosmos who is Usagi and comes from an even further future has perfect recollection of what happened.
It happened but also didn't happen.
At this moment, neither Pluto nor NQS know what is causing this - implying that Galaxia attacking Tokyo didn't occur in her era.
Later on, when Chibi-Usa returns back to the 20th century, Neo Serenity still doesn't know what is happening in the past but magically knows that her daughter must go to the Zero Star area.
It's a direct contrast to when in Infinity, Chibi-Usa remembers that her mother told her about Super Sailor Moon.
Meaning Takeuchi is implying that in NQS' past, all of these events didn't occur.
However, Cosmos who is Usagi and comes from an even further future has perfect recollection of what happened.
It happened but also didn't happen.
These plot holes made me rethink if i really hate the 90 Stars ending .....
yeah , it is like neherenia would had never existed , the sailors wouldnt had reached the super form then.
If Chaos wouldnt had never existed then Cosmos neither.
If thieves and killer would had never existed then we wouldnt need policemen.
just putting that as example.
There is no memory loss, it's just bad writing.
Moreover, you are comparing 2 different things here: after the fall of the Silver Millennium, they are reincarnated as completely new people, born out of the womb of an Earthling mother. It makes sense they have no memory because it's technically not 'their' memory anymore; they are a blank slate.
In Stars, they are resurrected. Previously in the series, several characters die and are brought back to life with no memory problems.
In fact, it's not speculation because Takeuchi brings this herself - the Guardian Cosmos gives 2 choices to Usagi, either be reborn (as reincarnated) into the future in a new era or go back to Earth as normal human beings and going their own way in life (this is ambiguous but I would suppose it means they are reborn like in the Classic ending with a complete memory wipe).
Usagi chooses NONE of those options.
She decides to continue living as is (with all of her pain and sadness that comes with her life as she says), continuing being a Senshi (and tying the girls eternally to her servitude).
There are further more contradictions in the story.
When disturbances start occurring in the 30th century, Future!Pluto informs Neo Serenity that there are fluctuations in the space-time continuum.
At this moment, neither Pluto nor NQS know what is causing this - implying that Galaxia attacking Tokyo didn't occur in her era.
Later on, when Chibi-Usa returns back to the 20th century, Neo Serenity still doesn't know what is happening in the past but magically knows that her daughter must go to the Zero Star area.
It's a direct contrast to when in Infinity, Chibi-Usa remembers that her mother told her about Super Sailor Moon.
Meaning Takeuchi is implying that in NQS' past, all of these events didn't occur.
However, Cosmos who is Usagi and comes from an even further future has perfect recollection of what happened.
It happened but also didn't happen.
If Cosmos changed the past (and again by the repercussions in the 30th century and people being oblivious to what is causing this, Takeuchi affirms that the future can be changed/erased), then she wouldn't have come to the past at all.
Worst, it's highly plausible that she exists as Cosmos solely because of the presence of Sailor Chaos but if she destroys Chaos in the present, she herself will cease to exist.
Even if your head-canon is that the Cauldron doesn't affect her, her future - if she had succeeded - would have been erased and she wouldn't have had a future to return to.
BAD WRITING.
Chaos is yet another thing that doesn't make any sense.
It is proven that the Chaos who faces Usagi at the Cauldron knows of the schemes of Death Phantom (whether Chaos is omniscient and knows of the future or knows of this via the battles of our Usagi), yet he doesn't do anything to change the battle plan of Death Phantom.
Several centuries in the future he will still send Death Phantom to a losing battle. The fact that Chibi-Usa still exists with all of her memories proves this fact.
The Wiseman of Black Moon was originally an Earthling NOT the one who poses as Wiseman to Galaxia.
Moreover, at the end of Stars, Chaos is destroyed and the Guardian Cosmos states that it will be reborn via the Chaos Crystal as Sailor Chaos.
From this moment on, in the 30th century, Chaos is dead.
There is nothing for Death Phantom to come from yet he supposedly still exists.
Same logic if you say the Wiseman Galaxia meets = the Wiseman of Black Moon, at this point of time, he CANNOT exist because Chaos is dead.
For Sailor Chaos to exist, Chaos has to completely be reborn anew but Death Phantom cannot exist (and have his powers) unless Chaos exists as the big smoke blob.
Yet it still happened.
Moreover, you are comparing 2 different things here: after the fall of the Silver Millennium, they are reincarnated as completely new people, born out of the womb of an Earthling mother. It makes sense they have no memory because it's technically not 'their' memory anymore; they are a blank slate.
In Stars, they are resurrected. Previously in the series, several characters die and are brought back to life with no memory problems.
In fact, it's not speculation because Takeuchi brings this herself - the Guardian Cosmos gives 2 choices to Usagi, either be reborn (as reincarnated) into the future in a new era or go back to Earth as normal human beings and going their own way in life (this is ambiguous but I would suppose it means they are reborn like in the Classic ending with a complete memory wipe).
Usagi chooses NONE of those options.
She decides to continue living as is (with all of her pain and sadness that comes with her life as she says), continuing being a Senshi (and tying the girls eternally to her servitude).
There are further more contradictions in the story.
When disturbances start occurring in the 30th century, Future!Pluto informs Neo Serenity that there are fluctuations in the space-time continuum.
At this moment, neither Pluto nor NQS know what is causing this - implying that Galaxia attacking Tokyo didn't occur in her era.
Later on, when Chibi-Usa returns back to the 20th century, Neo Serenity still doesn't know what is happening in the past but magically knows that her daughter must go to the Zero Star area.
It's a direct contrast to when in Infinity, Chibi-Usa remembers that her mother told her about Super Sailor Moon.
Meaning Takeuchi is implying that in NQS' past, all of these events didn't occur.
However, Cosmos who is Usagi and comes from an even further future has perfect recollection of what happened.
It happened but also didn't happen.
If Cosmos changed the past (and again by the repercussions in the 30th century and people being oblivious to what is causing this, Takeuchi affirms that the future can be changed/erased), then she wouldn't have come to the past at all.
Worst, it's highly plausible that she exists as Cosmos solely because of the presence of Sailor Chaos but if she destroys Chaos in the present, she herself will cease to exist.
Even if your head-canon is that the Cauldron doesn't affect her, her future - if she had succeeded - would have been erased and she wouldn't have had a future to return to.
BAD WRITING.
Chaos is yet another thing that doesn't make any sense.
It is proven that the Chaos who faces Usagi at the Cauldron knows of the schemes of Death Phantom (whether Chaos is omniscient and knows of the future or knows of this via the battles of our Usagi), yet he doesn't do anything to change the battle plan of Death Phantom.
Several centuries in the future he will still send Death Phantom to a losing battle. The fact that Chibi-Usa still exists with all of her memories proves this fact.
The Wiseman of Black Moon was originally an Earthling NOT the one who poses as Wiseman to Galaxia.
Moreover, at the end of Stars, Chaos is destroyed and the Guardian Cosmos states that it will be reborn via the Chaos Crystal as Sailor Chaos.
From this moment on, in the 30th century, Chaos is dead.
There is nothing for Death Phantom to come from yet he supposedly still exists.
Same logic if you say the Wiseman Galaxia meets = the Wiseman of Black Moon, at this point of time, he CANNOT exist because Chaos is dead.
For Sailor Chaos to exist, Chaos has to completely be reborn anew but Death Phantom cannot exist (and have his powers) unless Chaos exists as the big smoke blob.
Yet it still happened.
So, a full reincarnation involves a memory reset, but a resurrection involving merely foggy memories is not an unreasonable extrapolation. If you start over from scratch you have no memories vs picking up where you left off meaning you most of your memories. In real life after all, people who re rendered unconcious by a physical injury often do not remember specifics about what happened to them. So, I don't think it is unreasonable to argue the resurrection process meant they came back but their memories were not 100% crystal clear. Add centuries of life experience onto that and it is not unreasonable that they didn't remember to look out for the BMC, let alone Cosmos remembering exactly what happened when she was 16 years old.
I don't see your point regarding NQS. My argument is that her past is THE past we see in the manga, but her memory of it is not 100%. Therefore it would make sense she would remember Super Sailor Moon, would intuitively know Chibiusa needs to go to the Cauldron, but doesn't realise that the fluctations in CT are being caused by Galaxia's mischief in the 20th century. If anything, NQS referencing Super Sailor Moon rather confirms in her past NQS WAS Super Sailor Moon.
Does Cosmos have perfect recollection? Or, does she just think she does? She might remember feeling lonely, but it wasn't as if ChibiChibi's presence negated all of Usagi's lonliness at all. She was a comfort to her at times sure, but she still missed Mamoru. Therefore, if Cosmos doesn't remember ChibiChibi, her memories would ONLY be of the lonely times, and she would presume she can perfectly recall that as being the constant state of affairs back when she was 16. But it wasn't. People memories after all, lie to them all the time.
As for the paradox of Cosmos, my argument is that Cosmos never changed the past at all. She tried to, but she failed, because she was actually always part of history. She just didn't know it. Whilst history can be changed that doesn't mean it can be changed in any given way at any given point in the timeline. A temporary changing of history might, in a sense, be part of the larger fabric of time. For example, in Doctor Who the Twelfth Doctor helps his past incarnations save their people. As a result, his people send out a message that is received by the Eleventh Doctor who spends centuries fighting a war to defend a planet that is crucial to his people's survival. The thing is, in an earlier episode he and his companion already visited this planet and saw his own grave where he died in that same war. It is only because his companion wants to avoid the Doctor dying as she believed he would (because she had seen his future) that she asked for help, which wound up saving him and therefore allowing his to regenerate into the twelth Doctor. In essence there was a micro timeline where the events of the 'present' were directly determining the future, but there wasalso a macro timeline, wherein those changes to the immediate future were ultimately part of a grand big picture.
I think this is what we are dealing with in Sailor Moon. The 'immediate' future can change, but the big picture can't. So Crystal Tokyo and Chibi-Usa temporarily ceasing to exist was part of the established history which would in turn lead to them existing in the first place.
My headcanon isn't that the Cauldron doesn't affect Cosmos, it is that the usual side effects of co-existing with yourself in the same time and space doesn't apply to her. In the Black Moon arc Usagi began fading away because she spent too much time in close proximity to NQS. But this didn't happen when Cosmos was sleeping in the same bed as Usagi.
Yes, Cosmos would have caused a paradox if Chaos had been destroyed in the 20th century, but my point is she was never going to succeed because she was already part of the established events which led to Usagi's choice NOT to destroy Chaos.
As for Chaos' knowledge of Death Phantom, I don't think that is per se proven. As I recall, it was Usagi who was namedropping them, not Chaos itself. Even if it was Chaos, that doesn't mean it knows the future. Wiseman/Death Phantom ALREADY existed in the 20th century, so it was probably just referring to the 20thC version. We also have no confirmation that Death Phantom was being ordered to do anything in the Black Moon arc. It is possible, likely even, that he was independant of his progenitor but just following his 'prime directive' as it were.
What does ChibiUsa have to do with this? The Chibiusa was in the Cauldron yes, but she wasn't reborn from it like the others. Her 'soul' just visited Usagi in the Cauldron and assured her she'd be waiting in the 30th century. So Chibiusa from the end of the stars arc goes home and remembers all her adventures, which included the war with Wiseman.
There is no confirmation at all that there are 2 Wisemans. the Phantom we meet in the Black Moon arc is not confirmed to be an Earthling, he was presumed that by King Endymion et al, but the fact that he had weird magical powers rather disproves that fact. So, it is likely Wiseman in the 20th century survived Chaos's defeat in the Stars arc and sticks around long enough to someday terrorise Crystal Tokyo as Phantom, later becoming Death Phantom. Most likely, since his mission was to seduce Galaxia, he wasn't created to be uber powerful. hence he took so long to strike and got beaten as easily as he was. He was just following Chaos' 'prime directive'.
We also do not know the exact mechanics of how Chaos' extensions worked in relation to Chaos itself. Pharaoh 90 had NO IDEA about the Silver Crystal, meaning at least some of these extensions didn't know about one another or their creator. As such, it is far from impossible to presume they could exist independantly of Chaos itself. Alternatively, if Chaos had the potential to be reborn, that implies it is not completely gone, therefore Wiseman as a lone extension could very well still continue to exist.
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MsImagination
My interpretation of the Cosmos/Usagi dynamic is basically that Cosmos had a very glass half empty view on life because she'd seen so much dark stuff. usagi meanwhile had a glass half full POV.
Cosmos was saying the horrors of life are so terrible it would be more merciful if life someday ended rather than go on and on, guaranteeing pain and suffering would occur.*
Usagi meanwhile felt that the pain and suffering was the price we pay for love and joy, and that it was a price worth paying, a risk worth running. Which is appropriate in a romantic series. After all, even the most committed romantic relationships will end in heartbreak as someone is going to die first. But, people still get married knowing that someday they might have to say goodbye to their partner, and that it will hurt all the more for all the years they shared together. But they still do it.
*This is not dissimilar to a character in Attak on Titan who had this kind of 'euthanasia' scheme, wherein a population would be painlessly sterilised. As a result they would live out their lives in as much peace as they could, but there would be no future generations who would suffer.
Regardig the time travel I don't think it is a plothole because I don't see any evidence that NQS couldn't possibly have experienced the Stars arc in her own possible past, with the exception of her not remembering those events. But as I spoke about above, it is not unreasonable that neither she nor the other characters who died and came back (which would exclude Chibi-Usa) could recall their pasts perfectly. They've had a millennia of life experience stacked on top of dying and coming back to life from the Galaxy Cauldron. if they didn't remember the Silver Millennieum after being reincarnated and didn't fully recall it even after the DK arc, it is not unreasonable that their memories post-Stars is going to be foggy on certain points.
As I explained elsewhere, the timeline temporarily changing could in turn be part of the wide pattern of history. Sort of a 'you have to go back to ultimately go forward' sort of thing. Because CT exists the events of the BMC-Dream arc happen, especially since Chibi-Usa is critical to those arcs.
As a result Galaxia targets Earth, during which Mamoru dies, Usagi feels lonely but she meets and is comforted by ChibiChibi
Which results in CT starting to be erased
Which results in Chibi-Usa going back in time to help Usagi,
Which leads to Usagi confronting Galaxia and Chaos
Which leads to her having this choice of destroying the Cauldron or not
Which leads to ChibiChibi trying to convince her to destroy the Cauldron
This conversation leads Usagi into NOT destroying the Cauldron, instead uniting the Star Seeds inside and destroying Chaos, but not completely
This leads to everyone coming back to life, restoring CT and Chibi-Usa
Everyone who got resurrected eventually creates Crystal Tokyo
Much farther in the future, Usagi/NQS becomes Sailor Cosmos/Chaos returns as Sailor Chaos
Cosmos goes back in time to both comfort her younger lonely self and also ensure Usagi destroys the Cauldron
Except it was her actions in the past which directly contributed to Usagi NOT destroying the Cauldron.
And the glue that holds this together is nobody remembers the events of the 20th century 100% clearly. Which is corroborated by the fact that NQS and King Endymion DO remember certain things from their adventures in the 1990s, clearly didn't remember the Black Moon Clan since their invasion was a total shock to them. They should have remembered them from their battles in the 1990s. So, if CT is THE future (because it can be erased by events in the present) and NQS didn't remember the Black Moon Clan, it is reasonable to argue that Sailor Cosmos, farther into the future, didn't clearly remember the events of the Stars arc. She remembered feeling lonely, she remembered she had the choice to kill Chaos forever and didn't take it, but she clearly didn't remember ChibiChibi.
I'll also add that Talentless Fool's assertion that Sailor Cosmos only exists because of Sailor Chaos is pure speculation. For all we know NQS became Sailor Cosmos the day after Chibiusa returned to the future. Or Sailor Chaos came into existence in response to Sailor Cosmos. Or Sailor Cosmos might be a purely ceremonial title, and Sailor Cosmos is really just Sailor Moon rebranded.
Cosmos was saying the horrors of life are so terrible it would be more merciful if life someday ended rather than go on and on, guaranteeing pain and suffering would occur.*
Usagi meanwhile felt that the pain and suffering was the price we pay for love and joy, and that it was a price worth paying, a risk worth running. Which is appropriate in a romantic series. After all, even the most committed romantic relationships will end in heartbreak as someone is going to die first. But, people still get married knowing that someday they might have to say goodbye to their partner, and that it will hurt all the more for all the years they shared together. But they still do it.
*This is not dissimilar to a character in Attak on Titan who had this kind of 'euthanasia' scheme, wherein a population would be painlessly sterilised. As a result they would live out their lives in as much peace as they could, but there would be no future generations who would suffer.
Regardig the time travel I don't think it is a plothole because I don't see any evidence that NQS couldn't possibly have experienced the Stars arc in her own possible past, with the exception of her not remembering those events. But as I spoke about above, it is not unreasonable that neither she nor the other characters who died and came back (which would exclude Chibi-Usa) could recall their pasts perfectly. They've had a millennia of life experience stacked on top of dying and coming back to life from the Galaxy Cauldron. if they didn't remember the Silver Millennieum after being reincarnated and didn't fully recall it even after the DK arc, it is not unreasonable that their memories post-Stars is going to be foggy on certain points.
As I explained elsewhere, the timeline temporarily changing could in turn be part of the wide pattern of history. Sort of a 'you have to go back to ultimately go forward' sort of thing. Because CT exists the events of the BMC-Dream arc happen, especially since Chibi-Usa is critical to those arcs.
As a result Galaxia targets Earth, during which Mamoru dies, Usagi feels lonely but she meets and is comforted by ChibiChibi
Which results in CT starting to be erased
Which results in Chibi-Usa going back in time to help Usagi,
Which leads to Usagi confronting Galaxia and Chaos
Which leads to her having this choice of destroying the Cauldron or not
Which leads to ChibiChibi trying to convince her to destroy the Cauldron
This conversation leads Usagi into NOT destroying the Cauldron, instead uniting the Star Seeds inside and destroying Chaos, but not completely
This leads to everyone coming back to life, restoring CT and Chibi-Usa
Everyone who got resurrected eventually creates Crystal Tokyo
Much farther in the future, Usagi/NQS becomes Sailor Cosmos/Chaos returns as Sailor Chaos
Cosmos goes back in time to both comfort her younger lonely self and also ensure Usagi destroys the Cauldron
Except it was her actions in the past which directly contributed to Usagi NOT destroying the Cauldron.
And the glue that holds this together is nobody remembers the events of the 20th century 100% clearly. Which is corroborated by the fact that NQS and King Endymion DO remember certain things from their adventures in the 1990s, clearly didn't remember the Black Moon Clan since their invasion was a total shock to them. They should have remembered them from their battles in the 1990s. So, if CT is THE future (because it can be erased by events in the present) and NQS didn't remember the Black Moon Clan, it is reasonable to argue that Sailor Cosmos, farther into the future, didn't clearly remember the events of the Stars arc. She remembered feeling lonely, she remembered she had the choice to kill Chaos forever and didn't take it, but she clearly didn't remember ChibiChibi.
I'll also add that Talentless Fool's assertion that Sailor Cosmos only exists because of Sailor Chaos is pure speculation. For all we know NQS became Sailor Cosmos the day after Chibiusa returned to the future. Or Sailor Chaos came into existence in response to Sailor Cosmos. Or Sailor Cosmos might be a purely ceremonial title, and Sailor Cosmos is really just Sailor Moon rebranded.
It is only possible for Usagi to become Cosmos because she defeated Neherenia, so I would say that Princess Lady Serenity might be an alternate self of Chibiusa from the initial timeline of Cosmos, not the Chibiusa we know, the issue with the plot is that Naoko decided to merge her planned Chibiusa-Quartet arc to Stars and kill off the Starlights after at least reading the final plot of the 90s anime Stars without any consideration to consistency.
I think once Neherenia is defeated the BMC becomes a parallel timeline or gets erased from existence.
I think once Neherenia is defeated the BMC becomes a parallel timeline or gets erased from existence.
Sometimes I think that Sailor Chaos is the price that Usagi had to pay thanks that she created a life without dead , pain or wars , Usagi desaquilibrated the balance by allowing the people to life longer than they should and locking the Chaos in the deepest part of the galactic cauldron , so the only way that the balance could had been equilibrated again was allowing that something really bad could happen to Usagi , I think that Chaos growed stronger because the peace and happiness of all the people of the world growed stronger too , that made me think that instead of asking to Usagi to destroy the galactic cauldron , sailor cosmos should had asked to liberate the Chaos , to let it be free and doesn’t allowing to the people to live the wished life that they wanted and that Usagi gave to them , because that would desaquilibrate the natural order of the things and the price was gonna be to high.
So my logic basically is this ,if the people have happiness at 100 then the Chaos would have power at 100 , but if the people is just happy at 50 then the chaos would just have power at 50.
Usagi should had did something bad , liberate the chaos and doesn’t locking it , in order to create something good , keeping seeing all the persons that she love even if they would had to suffer constant attacks from the chaos because it would be better than doesn’t being with them in a very large period of time.
So my logic basically is this ,if the people have happiness at 100 then the Chaos would have power at 100 , but if the people is just happy at 50 then the chaos would just have power at 50.
Usagi should had did something bad , liberate the chaos and doesn’t locking it , in order to create something good , keeping seeing all the persons that she love even if they would had to suffer constant attacks from the chaos because it would be better than doesn’t being with them in a very large period of time.
As every accountant knows, the balance sheet is always balanced. lol Alternatively, you might turn all the good, positive things in the universe to zero, so that all the bad, negative things would also be turned to zero, & the end result would be that there'd be nothing good nor bad in the universe, i.e. absolute nothingness. lol
